Bands that you believe have sold out...

[EtherealEntity]

I'd say Dream Theater, thankfully the departure of Portnoy seems to have solved that. They were becoming far too metulz.

[bulb]

Originally Posted by RevDrucifer

I've been a sell-out for a long time.

I serve tables for a living instead of playing music.

Not doing what I *want* to do with my life in order to survive. This is -IMO- FAR worse than altering your sound to achieve more fans. Metallica wanted to be the biggest band in the world. They never said they wanted to write old school thrash all their careers while trying to get there. They straight out said, "We want to rule the world." Never said how.

Doesn't sound like they did anything but exactly what they wanted to, to me.

I know some of the guys from Lamb Of God worked as cooks at places like TGI Friday's and also roofed. I've worked both these jobs. If I were in a heavy band that got some recognition, I'd do whatever I could to keep that momentum building so I'd NEVER HAVE TO ....ING HAMMER A NAIL AT 50FT OR GRILL ANOTHER PIECE OF ....ING CHICKEN AGAIN.

I really wish more people had this perspective. Truth.

[Levi79]

I'm on the fence with the whole sell out thing. While there's been good points made on both sides, I don't like it when one of my favorite bands goes from this

to this


Although I must admit I enjoy all of Architects stuff, it's kind of a shame to see them do something like that just for the extra attention. At the same time, making money through music isn't simple.

[SD83]

Originally Posted by bulb

I really wish more people had this perspective. Truth.

This is why I love this forum. I can't imagine a discussion with local "metalheads" about "bands that sold out" ending peacefully or with any kind of logical argumentation.
@topic: For many of the usual suspects, I wouldn't call it "sell out". It's the same thing I lost a couple of friends (and my last girlfriend) to... people just change. As for the bands, lots of the members have families to support, children. And, I have seen this too often, money is a strong drug. One where you want to increase the dose and which can become your only driving force rather easily, so no hard feelings from my side to those who fell victim to this.
The only band that comes to my mind right now where I would say "sell out" is Linkin Park, not sure about the more recent stuff, but to me, the change from "Meteora" to "Minutes to midnight" was rather obviously driven by the thought that that was exactly the music that would reach a huge audience at that time.

[Mordacain]

Personally, I think the term "sold out" is tossed around far too liberally by people now-a-days.

First and foremost, a band can completely change their sound if they want to based purely on a desire to play something different, or just as a natural evolution of their interests. Simply because someone plays something that might have more radio-friendly qualities does not mean they have "sold out." All of the best bands, in my opinion have a catalog that sounds very diverse, with each successive release delivering something different.

Releasing the same album over and over again is not something I see as "selling out," I see it as a lack of creativity and a sign of stagnation.

That being said, I LOL'd hard at some of the examples of "radio friendly" listed here. Not saying anyone is wrong, just that we have grossly different interpretations of what that might mean.

[edsped]

Originally Posted by HeHasTheJazzHands

I'd have to say Children of Bodom. They ditched their neo-classical power metal sound and went for a more melodic death metal sound which, strangely, sounds easier to sell.

I'm also gonna throw in Arch Enemy. Not sure what happened, but it sounds like they went from death metal to borderline metalcore.

CoB have always been melodeath, they just started making bad music.

[steve1]

It's called the music business for a reason. It's ALL about selling.

If you want to earn enough money from making music to live a comfortable life and provide for your family etc etc etc, the likelihood is that you are going to have to "sell out" to some degree

[Don Vito]

Originally Posted by edsped

CoB have always been melodeath, they just started making bad music.

Really? Aside from bad production, I like their demos a lot.

[vampiregenocide]

It pains me to say this, but Mudvayne. I lost my love for them after Lost And Found. That was the last good album they made in my opinion. I have no issue with bands writing commercial music, or streamlining their sound to get a wider fan base, but there's a point where you stray so far from what you originally were that it damages the very foundations you gained that popularity on. As soon as they had a hit with 'Happy?' it seemed like they wanted to recapture the success they had with that song. Can't blame them, but it meant they followed it with two albums of attempts at radio-friendly metal hits with a weak progressive edge. Looking back at L.D50 and seeing how masterfully written that was, it makes the later albums look weak in comparison.

I wouldn't mind so much if they'd just used that material for Hellyeah, seeing as it fit that band perfectly. It just didn't have what made Mudvayne special to me.


On the subject of Metallica, I don't feel like they sold out. They've not really changed their sound a huge deal in my opinion. I think they're great songwriters and I've liked all the material I've heard by them though granted I'm not the biggest fan. I liked Death Magnetic and St. Anger (though better production would have made them 10x better).

[rainbowbrite]

i am always puzzled by people who get upset when a band changes their sound or style, as if the band walked into the room and ....ed their dog right in front of them. instead of accusing them of changing, they proclaim to the world "you have sold out, kind sir. good day." bands exist for their own selfish pleasure, it is coincidence that fans take pleasure in what they produce...

[Eric Christian]

Originally Posted by M3CHK1LLA

any bands that you believe have sold out?

whos still soldiering on, making music despite the smaller paychecks?

this encompasses all genres. discuss.

The most glaring example would hands down be Metallica. Kill Them All, Ride The Lightning & Master Of Puppets are the only material I own from them. I've always resented what they did.

Slayer on the other hand has always stuck to their guns.

[The Uncreator]

Originally Posted by rainbowbrite

i am always puzzled by people who get upset when a band changes their sound or style, as if the band walked into the room and ....ed their dog right in front of them. instead of accusing them of changing, they proclaim to the world "you have sold out, kind sir. good day." bands exist for their own selfish pleasure, it is coincidence that fans take pleasure in what they produce...

Some fans are selfish enough to think musicians make music for them. They are artists, and we are lucky enough to be a part of what they create.

Like I said before, seems like a bunch of babies, mere children.

[Explorer]

Using the definition of "sell out" which means changing your music to make it more commercial... how does one really distinguish between someone doing it for the money... and someone doing it because they now prefer something else?

To say you know the difference is to say you know someone else's heart, and can make that claim with authority. I don't think anyone here is psychic, so really, what gives with claiming to know why another person does anything artistic?

"I don't like how the songwriting now comes closer to what people like to hear" seems to mean "I don't like how the songwriter's tastes in what he writes might have evolved what I wanted." To say that someone can't learn and change is bullshit.

[silverabyss]

Go watch "Why we do this" documentary by Car_bomb and come back.

[Into Obsidian]

Originally Posted by Eric Christian

Slayer on the other hand has always stuck to their guns.

Exodus as well

[K3V1N SHR3DZ]

Originally Posted by Levi79

I'm on the fence with the whole sell out thing. While there's been good points made on both sides, I don't like it when one of my favorite bands goes from this

to this


Although I must admit I enjoy all of Architects stuff, it's kind of a shame to see them do something like that just for the extra attention. At the same time, making money through music isn't simple.

I would never listen to the 1st one.
The 2nd one ....ING PWNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't agree with making something like that a SINGLE though....

[JStraitiff]

Its difficult to say that someone has "sold out" because a lot of times bands change their musical direction for a new album out of personal choice and people jump all over them. I personally believe that to gain any commercial success you kinda have to reach out to more audiences. With some of the harder, less-melodic genres like deathcore its so difficult to attract people. A band that i think made a turn for the better by incorporating more main stream elements is As I Lay Dying. They used to be kinda poopy for my tastes but now they have some seriously awesome melodies. Mostly in the choruses but still better.

[MFB]

I can't think of any bands I know who blatantly said "We want money, so we're gonna change our sound" vs. their change in sound lending them to more commercial success per se. In terms of the latter In Flames definitely falls into this category and it always takes me a while to get into their newest album - not to mention they have a ....ton of songs on it as well (14/15 I believe, vs. "A Sense of Purpose" and "Come Clarity"'s 10/11). Same for Children of Bodom - I love them up Hate Crew Deathroll and don't mind if I hear some of the tracks from Are You Dead Yet? but I've yet to listen to Blooddrunk because what I did hear was just not what I cared for. Arch Enemy is another example, even when they had Johann; solid band, and Wages of Sin was my first introduction to them, and then Anthems of Rebellion really sold me on them, then Doomsday Machine was just OK and haven't listened to anything else since because it's more of the same "We're rebels, look at how now suddenly we're united and shit...oh yeah and Angela Gossow" etc...

[Stealthdjentstic]

Well, what kind of annoys me, is when bands change their musicial direction but suck at making that kind of music, then blame fans for not liking it and getting all poopy.

Remember Morbid Angel's last album?

NOTHING progressive about it but Captain Douchemeister kept saying the reason fans don't like it is because they don't understand, when really...MA just sucks at making industrial.

[Semichastny]

I don't really care to much about selling out or any of the related crap, but I would have to say Against Me! kind of sold out. I was confused by them releasing an album almost entirely dedicated to shit talking the music industry then signing to a major.

[theleem]

Originally Posted by vampiregenocide

It pains me to say this, but Mudvayne. I lost my love for them after Lost And Found. That was the last good album they made in my opinion. I have no issue with bands writing commercial music, or streamlining their sound to get a wider fan base, but there's a point where you stray so far from what you originally were that it damages the very foundations you gained that popularity on. As soon as they had a hit with 'Happy?' it seemed like they wanted to recapture the success they had with that song. Can't blame them, but it meant they followed it with two albums of attempts at radio-friendly metal hits with a weak progressive edge. Looking back at L.D50 and seeing how masterfully written that was, it makes the later albums look weak in comparison.

Truth. I actually don't have a problem with their later albums, and every now and then I'll really get into one of them, but they have nowhere near the power and amazing composition of LD50

[RevDrucifer]

I agree with the Mudvayne thing. I'm a HUGE Mudvayne fan, that band saved my life at one point. But after Lost And Found I didn't feel they even cared about the progressive thing they did early on. I still love the sound of the band, just REALLY miss the songwriting of the first 3 albums.

The new HellYeah tune sounds like something from the past couple Mudvayne albums, just a simpler rhythm section. The band has been saying it's exactly what you'd think the members of Mudvayne, Pantera and Nothingface would come up with. If that's true, I'll love the album....unless it's like the last couple Mudvayne records.

[Trespass]

I think there are two major things at play here:

1) At some point, it's creating art for the sake of self-expression vs. creating art because it allows you to be an artist (and all the 'perks', such as playing live shows, fans interacting with and enjoying something you've made). Sometimes, this dichotomy lines up, and the art you make is commercially successful while being true to self-expression. Other times, you make artistic choices that definitely are more true to needs of the mainstream.

2) When music is your fulltime job, sometimes it's literally just a job. It's hard to sustain the level of passion and enthusiasm you originally had in earlier albums when what you really enjoy may have shifted elsewhere, or the constant musick'ing just over-exposes and over-stimulates the creative aspect.

Members of Dream Theatre, for example, are doing okay financially, but they also have children they want to send to college and have the resources to help them out financially in different ways (illness, entrepreneurship, home ownership). I'm sure that they feel, at times, like quitting their job to pursue something else, but this is the best they've got financially. Sometimes, the rhythm of putting out an album every 2 years isn't in line with what you feel is right.

But you do it anyways, and say how great it was recording it because that's your job. Remember that they've been at this for 20+ years now, doing the same thing for income.



I do music full time, playing (mainly jazz), teaching, and in my spare time working on new material, writing etc. It's incredibly emotionally wearing at times, and certainly isn't always fun.

[cronux]

i think that in almost every musicians life there comes a time where your band's "last cd isn't selling well" and the label wants you to change things up so as you don't lose your paycheck and all the "spotlight" that you've been getting with your "last album"

will you now play catchy tunes in drop d instead of your djent/hardcore/mosh/death metal in drop g# that you've done so far is up to you... (it's either that or you get kicked off the label - it has happened )

kinda like -> will you "sell out" to feed your family of become a regular stiff?

the thing about music is that there's NO RETIREMENT PLAN, no "gold watch" when you retire from music altogether (playing shows and touring) etc.

let's say i am 42 and walked into a job interview after quiting a band:
"so what were you doing for the last 10-15 years?"

being in a djent/hardcore/mosh/death metal in drop g# for all that time touring the world isn't really a CV

but that's only one way to look at it

[Loomer]

Originally Posted by Stealthdjentstic

Well, what kind of annoys me, is when bands change their musicial direction but suck at making that kind of music, then blame fans for not liking it and getting all poopy.

Remember Morbid Angel's last album?

NOTHING progressive about it but Captain Douchemeister kept saying the reason fans don't like it is because they don't understand, when really...MA just sucks at making industrial.

I wouldn't call MA's latest album a sell-out thing at all though, because they hopped over to a genre NO ONE likes and it was a shift that made NO SENSE AT ALL business-wise, since pseudo-Rob Zombie dance metal has been out of fashion something vicious for well over a decade, and is thoroughly un-marketable these days. Cryptopsy were much better at this. At least they had the sense to hop on the deathcore bandwagon very early, while that was still in full swing.