The POD recording tips, tricks, and eq-ing thread

[eventhetrees]

Got my Pod X3 Live.

I LOVE DUAL TONE! Holy shit!!!!

I'll probably post some tones when I get some good ones see what you guys think!

So worth 150 bucks to upgrade

Quick Question:

I'm just testing how well split they are. By doing 1 clean tone and 1 distortion. In the clean I can hear the tiniest bit of distortion in the background. How can I make them 100% independant. I got it set to Match Studio/Dir and pan left and right...

[El Caco]

Originally Posted by eventhetrees

Got my Pod X3 Live.

I LOVE DUAL TONE! Holy shit!!!!

I'll probably post some tones when I get some good ones see what you guys think!

So worth 150 bucks to upgrade

Quick Question:

I'm just testing how well split they are. By doing 1 clean tone and 1 distortion. In the clean I can hear the tiniest bit of distortion in the background. How can I make them 100% independant. I got it set to Match Studio/Dir and pan left and right...

You can't. This fault has been complained about forever on the Line6 forums.

[damigu]

the fact is that even studio mixers have some bleed across the channels (depending on the brand and model line, it is sometimes much less, sometimes a little more).
it is impossible to avoid without invoking some really expensive electronics to fully isolate the channels.
in fact, home and car stereos all have bleed across the channels so fully isolated channels are lost on the listener anyway.

however, if you absolutely need to record the same track with 2 separate tones without any bleed what-so-ever, then you can always re-amp it twice (once for each tone).

[MF_Kitten]

for those who remember my "pod tone trick" with the mixing of cabs, i found out some cool stuff while noodling around with it: you can play around with the amp model's tone controls to change it's character in nice ways. starting from two identical tone settings, you can turn up the presence or treble on one of the tones to "morph" those characteristics more towards that cab/mic combo's sound. the two tones will battle eachother and phase eachother out, but in pleasant ways that you can use to remove unpleasant boomyness, honkyness or fizz. pretty damn nifty!

for those of you who don't know about the "trick" i'm referring to, i've detailed it earlier in this thread

[mnemonic]

man, i cant stand it when two tones get all phased out, the fizz goes away (which is totally awesome) but its usually replaced with some strange buzz in the high end that i can't for the life of me get rid of, tbh i prefer the fizz

some dual tone combos dont phase eachother out though (or atleast not noticeably) and i like those ones

[Sang-Drax]

I just wanted to share something with you.

My first tube amp finally arrived (a DR clone), but, since the footswitch isn't here yet (long story), I decided to plug my pod through the power amp (6L6's), with no cab simulation (since I change presets a lot, I can't possibly gig without a footswitch).



Dude, this thing rocks! Until today, I had only tried it through ss power amps... what a difference!

I mean, this amp I purchased is hand made in Brazil, which means it goes for ~30% of the price of an import one. I have no knowledge of any builder who makes power amps, which means I'd have to buy an expensive import one.

However, for those of you with access to better stuff, pod -> good tube poweramp -> 1x12" is a compact albeit very efficient rig. I highly recommend it (specially with no cab simulation).


Yeah, I know lots of people do it. But I can't stress enough how much of a difference it makes. I'm yet to try with the rest of the band, though.

[dexmix]

Originally Posted by mnemonic

man, i cant stand it when two tones get all phased out, the fizz goes away (which is totally awesome) but its usually replaced with some strange buzz in the high end that i can't for the life of me get rid of, tbh i prefer the fizz

some dual tone combos dont phase eachother out though (or atleast not noticeably) and i like those ones

you would think the POD engineers would add an adjustable delay line, on one of the signal paths to control phasing?

[mnemonic]

line6 seems to have a tendency of not thinking things through.

[damigu]

that's not really fair to line6 because they set it up kind of how real studio operations work.

real audio engineers don't typically use delays to control phasing. most often they just change mic location/spacing.

guess what? you can do exactly that with the PODs--the "room" control acts by changing the virtual distance between the mic and cab. it does help with phasing issues.

[dexmix]

Originally Posted by damigu

that's not really fair to line6 because they set it up kind of how real studio operations work.

real audio engineers don't typically use delays to control phasing. most often they just change mic location/spacing.

guess what? you can do exactly that with the PODs--the "room" control acts by changing the virtual distance between the mic and cab. it does help with phasing issues.

I'm surprised more studio's dont use an adjustable delay? adjustable down the the uS would be plenty. That way you can adjust the mic's for tone - and then twist a knob if theres a phasing issue.

or maybe studios dont even have issues with phasing because they can adjust the phasing of the two channels in the DAW?
or maybe phasing isnt an issue because of real world differences (buffers/cable length etc) between the 2 amp setups.

[damigu]

phasing usually isn't an issue because these people spend years learning/knowing equipment and how to specifically avoid phasing. professional audio engineers are on a whole different level than bedroom studio guys.

delay is just a jury rig "fix" for phasing. the fact is that phasing isn't a time issue (which is what delays affect)--changing the timing will often just put a different set of frequencies out of phase or else make the whole sound out of whack (since humans can notice delays on the order of milliseconds).
phasing is a location issue (specifically, the way that sound waves interact at different locations). altering the location of a mic yields better results than affecting the timing of the sound.

(though one can argue that moving a mic does also affect the time the sound takes to travel between the source and the mic, it is an amount far far less than any delay can accomplish)

[dexmix]

Originally Posted by damigu

phasing usually isn't an issue because these people spend years learning/knowing equipment and how to specifically avoid phasing. professional audio engineers are on a whole different level than bedroom studio guys.

delay is just a jury rig "fix" for phasing. the fact is that phasing isn't a time issue (which is what delays affect)--changing the timing will often just put a different set of frequencies out of phase or else make the whole sound out of whack (since humans can notice delays on the order of milliseconds).
phasing is a location issue (specifically, the way that sound waves interact at different locations). altering the location of a mic yields better results than affecting the timing of the sound.

(though one can argue that moving a mic does also affect the time the sound takes to travel between the source and the mic, it is an amount far far less than any delay can accomplish)

I'm gonna argue that phasing is a time issue - considering thats how phasing is defined... 2 signals with respect to time.

also im not talking milliseconds - im talking uS (micro-seconds), and I can guarantee no one here can notice the difference between the signal delay of a true bypass vs buffered bypass.

a line delay works on the order of microseconds - with multiple buffers (usually solid state or op amp buffers). this is how a phaser works... with adjustable delay lines cause constructive - destructive interference. we can hear the interference - but not the delay.

so call it what you will (a jury rig) - but a simple delay line would fix the root cause of phasing between 2 rigs.

adjusting a mic however - does alot more then adjust the signals delay - it affects the frequency response.

Also - moving a mic fixes phase differences between speakers, and is a totally different issue then phase difference between 2 separate rigs.

[damigu]

that is the verbal definition of phasing, but i was talking about the practical application of recording a rig--the source of the phasing, not the phasing itself. in recording guitars, it is generally the result of spacing, not timing.
as you pointed out, the buffers in effects add an exceedingly small delay but throwing another one into a rig won't alleviate phasing. to my knowledge, the only effect that tries to fix phase issues with delay is the BBE, and it is actually useless regarding phasing. but at least the BBE realizes that--as i hinted at--different frequencies interact at different time scales, so you'd need a frequency variable delay (and a lot of patience). applying a single delay to the whole signal will usually just put a different set of frequencies out of phase and not resolve your issue.

in the case of recording 2 separate rigs independently and mixing them together, if you're getting phasing then just cut out the appropriate frequencies from one of the signals.
phasing means that your two signals are almost identical in those frequencies. since they're nearly identical, you can just filter it out from one channel without affecting the overall sound.

if you're getting a *LOT* of phasing with 2 different POD tones, that basically just means you're trying to recreate the same tone in both channels. what's the point of that?
as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, a lot of us EQ out large sections of one tone or other when we're using amp/cab/mic combos with similar qualities. so that we'll be exploiting their differences and avoiding the phasing issues from their similarities.

[dexmix]

Originally Posted by damigu

in the case of recording 2 separate rigs independently and mixing them together, if you're getting phasing then just cut out the appropriate frequencies from one of the signals.
phasing means that your two signals are almost identical in those frequencies. since they're nearly identical, you can just filter it out from one channel without affecting the overall sound.

if you're getting a *LOT* of phasing with 2 different POD tones, that basically just means you're trying to recreate the same tone in both channels. what's the point of that?
as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, a lot of us EQ out large sections of one tone or other when we're using amp/cab/mic combos with similar qualities. so that we'll be exploiting their differences and avoiding the phasing issues from their similarities.

I could argue with you all day about phasing but think you just made the whole argument moot.

bottom line is when combing 2 seperate rigs - the best solution is to EQ out large sections of one tone or another that are causing phasing issues.

I personally like the idea of a delay line to A) move phasing out of the meat of the signals and B) add a chorusing effect to beef up the mid/low frequencies. Any high frequency phasing issues should still be EQ'd out of one signal or the other.

[damigu]

i'm glad we found middle ground.
you and i don't disagree on what phasing is.
i'm just saying that using minute delays isn't an ideal (or even particularly good) way to deal with it--as demonstrated by my BBE example (which *should* affect phasing issues when recording but in practice it really doesn't).

[mnemonic]

Originally Posted by dexmix

bottom line is when combing 2 seperate rigs - the best solution is to EQ out large sections of one tone or another that are causing phasing issues.

this is what i always end up doing on my dual tone patches. i have a big bottom patch that i like that is tight and djenty, but missing alot of low mid chunkyness and midrange, so i use a recto model with a different cab, focusing mainly on the mids and low mids with some big shelves in the eq to cut out extra treble or bass to stop it from getting screachy or overly boomy.



also to clarify on what i said earlier about line6 not thinking things through, i suppose i'm mainly referring to how they repackage old tech (they could at least rebox their newer models rather than passing off pod2.0 models as new stuff) and when they finally do something 'new' that may have some promise, (ie. spidervalve) the more or less ruin it by sticking their cheapest, worst sounding preamp infront of this tube poweramp.

ok mini-rant over, i just needed to raeg a bit about line6 in the last few years.

[damigu]

just another thing i realized about the whole issue of line delays and the PODs:
PODs don't run at a sample rate high enough to offer true microsecond delays. even if you take your POD X3 up to its maximum resolution (96 kHz), the shortest time interval you can tease out of it would be 1/96,000 seconds (or 1/96 millisecond, which is still an order of magnitude short for true microsecond delays). but my analysis of the frequency spectrum coming from the POD is that it doesn't do "true" 96kHz resolution--it seems to take upconvert from a 48kHz signal instead, so it might actually be limited to a minimum of 1/48 millisecond delay instead of 1/96.

[VettaUser]

Does anyone know which patches are compatible with the Vetta? I realy want some of the patches in the patch library

EDIT: By that I mean, which POD patches are compatible with the Vetta

[silverthesky]

mf kitten you RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!

dopamine rush is sick i havent stoped listening to it this is like my 15h listen in a row lol

ok I produce and mix and sound design and what not and theirs 2 saysing

you cant polish a turd and the most important thing in good sound is the beginning.

so you need to start with the bets sound possible B$ recording

Cables make a BIG diff

buy a few or try some out some how if u can. makes the world of a diff

also shorter the better


ALSO when u can invest in a di box sometimes that helps

now that takes care of the "best out come is starting with a good sound" part

now the you cant polish a turd part

if u think throwing an eq or compression after the signal is going threw fxs

and distortion is gonna help you are dead wrong .

you want ur dry signal to be eq and compressed like in real situations B4 it goes threw distortion.

throw an eq then compressor then an amp and then start tweaking the amps distortion and eq when u get it to what u like start going for the pre eq . if it needs more bite and pow then throw on the pre compressor and tweak.

also you should you tube on what compression is and how it works or else ur gonna .... up ur sound. most of the reasons the sounds are shit is cos their is a compressor in their

rules for sound design and mixing is never compress fx never eq fx and always start with the best recording or source u can b4 actualy doing anything. remember ur guitar has its own eq use that b4 using real eqs on the pods cos the less eq and compression etc the better. and as people said here too i think record at the highest quality u can standard is 24 bit 44hkz or w/e

[astrocreep]

Originally Posted by silverthesky

mf kitten you RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!

dopamine rush is sick i havent stoped listening to it this is like my 15h listen in a row lol

ok I produce and mix and sound design and what not and theirs 2 saysing

/snip

My eyes are bleeding, just trying to read that...

Is a suitable summary of what he said "Don't compress, don't use too much distortion and seek out information about recording wherever you can find it, even YouTube"??

[silverthesky]

thats a shame cos i didnt type that much and if it wasnt important i wouldnt have said it. oh well ill just share less information then?

seems like a great site here

look forward to seeing whats all here on this site.

also ur summery is all wrong to what i said. if u said POST eq and compress then yes ud summarize well. But thats been said >9000 times.

from what i read (most of this thread) is that no one mentioned what i wrote which is even more important. fixing the "core" of the sound b4 the distortion and fxs happen.

[Mattayus]

Just a quick tip for any Big Bottom users - Try turning the treble off. Like, all the way off. It gets darker and darker as you turn it down, then, when it hits zero, these mids just pop out of nowhere and it becomes a totally different amp. It's bizarre, but works brilliantly and gets rid of hiss. If it's STILL too dark for you then simply use presence to brighten it, then low pass in your DAW to get rid of any upper register sibilance.

[MF_Kitten]

i tried that once, with the big bottom amp. works like a charm!

it´s still a hard amp model to master. it´s very temperamental!

[damigu]

Originally Posted by Mattayus

Just a quick tip for any Big Bottom users - Try turning the treble off. Like, all the way off. It gets darker and darker as you turn it down, then, when it hits zero, these mids just pop out of nowhere and it becomes a totally different amp. It's bizarre, but works brilliantly and gets rid of hiss. If it's STILL too dark for you then simply use presence to brighten it, then low pass in your DAW to get rid of any upper register sibilance.

very interesting. i'm definitely going to have to try that once i'm moved into my new place and set up again.
the big bottom isn't my main amp sound, but i do like to play with it sometimes.

[mnemonic]

i usually do that with the big bottom amp (or keep the treble low, like between 20% and 30%, but lately i've gained a fancy for the 5150 model. which is strange cos i've always thought it was shit before. i love finding a certain combo of settings that just sounds great.