[noodles]

Originally Posted by Karl Hungus

So, on to a more reasoned argument. I had sickening amounts of GAS for the SE not so long ago, because it really is a fantastic amp, 'plastic' would certainly not be a term I'd use to describe it, nor would I say it's processed or artificial sounding. What I would say is that it's very tight, very focused, very high gain and very compressed. So while I don't agree with the terminology used, I can totally see why a few people here don't like the amp. I was going to say that noodles probably hasn't had enough time with the amp, and considering the labyrinthine amount of sound shaping controls and options, it would be like someone trying a Mark IV for the first time, and being unsatisfied... But there are certain qualities to the amp that you're just not going to be able to dial out, so I can very much respect that noodles probably wouldn't be happy with the amp no matter how long he spent with it.

You would be right, since I only had about an hour with one. However, what I noticed right away--and it is what I would call a deal breaker--was the two modes on the high gain channels. The lower gain mode didn't give you enough gain. I dimed it, and it just wasn't enough. I pushed the mode switch, and it was instant over saturation. I started turning the knob down, until I reached zero and stopped coming out of the amp.

This just killed it for me. If I can't get the gain level where I want it, then there will never be anything I can do with the amp, no matter how much time I have with it. I was longing for a third mode that was in between the two.

I will agree with the different strokes for different folks argument, though. If you are completely in love an Engl SE, then there is absolutely no way you are ever going to like a Recto. The SE has a far tighter damping factor, a lot more gain, and tons of compression, while the Recto is a lot more open, throws the speakers about wildly, and champions brute force over compression. They "feel" completely different to play.

[VforVendetta00]

Originally Posted by Karl Hungus

Fluid is exactly how I'd describe the SE leads! I couldn't think of a better word for it. Kinda like the leads here, nothing quite comes close! Yeah, the lead channels are quite versatile, and there is a lot of sound options there, so it does take some getting to know the amp.

I would completely disagree about looking else than ENGL for organic sounds though, they are far from a one-trick pony, and despite people knowing the sound of the Powerball best, what with that being the most popular and recogised of their amps, they've a lot more going for them, and people seem to forget the likes of the Blackmore and the other amps they've got. It's like people thinking Mesa were only good for nu-metal, while those bands were popular, which is just wrong... Likewise I think ENGLs are just as varied.

My Uncle for example, a country player, was insanely impressed with the Invader when he played it. There's as much organic in the Invader as any other amp I've had the pleasure of using, and at the time of buying, when I was looking for something more organic, I could have easily gone for a Mesa, Soldano or VHT, but stuck with ENGL, because they had exactly what I wanted.

I get you about the boost, I felt the screamer made a much, much bigger difference to the Invader than it did to the Fireball. Different amps just respond in their own way.

well, i didnt say they are a one trick pony, i just mean that they have that certain quality to em that u have to love or you just wont be happy with it. After playing many many different amps i just learned what i like and dont, and i know if i only had the SE i'd miss the recto and i wasnt completely happy with just the recto, so i have both, and i'll probably get a 5150 eventually just cause they kick ass too! hehe

[Karl Hungus]

Originally Posted by noodles

You would be right, since I only had about an hour with one. However, what I noticed right away--and it is what I would call a deal breaker--was the two modes on the high gain channels. The lower gain mode didn't give you enough gain. I dimed it, and it just wasn't enough. I pushed the mode switch, and it was instant over saturation. I started turning the knob down, until I reached zero and stopped coming out of the amp.

This just killed it for me. If I can't get the gain level where I want it, then there will never be anything I can do with the amp, no matter how much time I have with it. I was longing for a third mode that was in between the two.

I will agree with the different strokes for different folks argument, though. If you are completely in love an Engl SE, then there is absolutely no way you are ever going to like a Recto. The SE has a far tighter damping factor, a lot more gain, and tons of compression, while the Recto is a lot more open, throws the speakers about wildly, and champions brute force over compression. They "feel" completely different to play.

Y'see, there we go. There's actually 4 modes, as there's high/low gain and modern/classic voicings as well, so I'm sure the kind of sounds you were after was there, you just didn't get to find them. Although I'm still sure you wouldn't particular like the amp, not because of the range of gain on tap, but just the inherent qualities of the amp like the response and overall compressed sound. As you say yourself, it feels completely different to a Recto. I definitely think there's plenty of variety in the sounds you can coax from the SE, it just takes a bit of doing.

You said earlier in the thread you feel the Invader is far better, have you played one? I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on it.

Originally Posted by VforVendetta00

well, i didnt say they are a one trick pony, i just mean that they have that certain quality to em that u have to love or you just wont be happy with it. After playing many many different amps i just learned what i like and dont, and i know if i only had the SE i'd miss the recto and i wasnt completely happy with just the recto, so i have both, and i'll probably get a 5150 eventually just cause they kick ass too! hehe

Well, I just don't agree, because the same qualities aren't in all their amps.

The Fireball/Powerball/SE are all the tight, focused, compressed sounding range. To make a Mesa comparison, it's kinda like the Single/Dual Recto/Roadking range, there's a certain sound to all of them, but step outside that range, and you've got amps that have a completely different sound. The ENGL Classic, Thunder, Blackmore and so forth, they're not the same kind of sound at all, and neither is the Invader. I'm sure the upcoming Steve Morse head will be something different as well.

I mean, if you don't dig the feel and response of the Powerball/SE, then there's plenty of other Engls that have a completely different response, have a completely different voicing and so forth. So it's just not fair to say if you're looking for organic, look elsewhere, because the amps that do have that more organic sound are there, it's not all tight, compressed and brutal.

[LordOVchaoS]

Have you all seen this video?

[Hcash]

Does anyone have some pics of the Engl E860???

[noodles]

Originally Posted by Karl Hungus

You said earlier in the thread you feel the Invader is far better, have you played one? I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on it.

Not yet, but I did get to stand in front of Bulb's for an entire set. It just sounded completely different from what I'm used to hearing an Engl sound like. Necrophagist definitely had that Engl sound, and so did Chris Broderick. The Invader sounded more like a Recto.

Either way, I just couldn't see spending the kind of dough that an SE goes for. They are just ridiculously priced. I could get a Soldano SLO100 for that kind of cash, and I don't think there is an amp on the planet that sounds anywhere near as good as that one.

[stuh84]

Originally Posted by noodles

They are just ridiculously priced in the US.

Fixed

SE's are £2000 here new, Invaders are £1600, Roadkings are nearly £3000, and Roadsters are nearly the same price as the SE. An SLO on eBay here (last one I saw on the bay) was £1800 used....

I know what you mean about the SLO though, I still can't wait to see one in person as some of the clips I've heard are stupendously good

[noodles]

Originally Posted by stuh84

Fixed

SE's are £2000 here new, Invaders are £1600, Roadkings are nearly £3000, and Roadsters are nearly the same price as the SE. An SLO on eBay here (last one I saw on the bay) was £1800 used....

Well, I'm going by where Joe lives, which is the US. Peavey is cheap over here, but I've heard they can get pricier in Europe.

I know what you mean about the SLO though, I still can't wait to see one in person as some of the clips I've heard are stupendously good

Having played one, I can say there is no finer lead amp in existence. There is not one thing about them that I would change, other than the price, so I could own one.

[stuh84]

Yeah, I mean if you were in the US, I'm not sure I'd go SE personally, but then again I think I'd still go Invader (SE I thought was nice, an Invader will be in my room in 33 days, go figure), but the prices over there? I'd give a load of other amps a real try first.

[LordOVchaoS]

Me no likes SLO100.