Which Engl?

[Demeyes]

I'm going to be on work placement in a few weeks so I'll be getting some money. I think I'd like to try an ENGL head to see what the fuss is about. I've never tried one but I've seen a few live and they sounded good. There aren't any in the shops near me to try out.
There are a few used Fireballs going around, but lots of people are using the powerballs too. I play in a metal band - progy, old school heavyish - and mostly play metal but a clean would be nice. Needs to have a nice lead tone. Which should I go for? I can pick up a Fireball for less than half the price of a new Powerball. Is it worth it for the extra channel? Volume not an issue really, I prefer less power in tubes so I can drive them, but I'll not be using the thing on a daily basis, just gigs and practice.
I'm leaning towards the Fireball to be honest. Any reason not to?

[budda]

do you want or need that extra channel?

none whatsoever from what i gather.

[ibznorange]

Powerball = pressy pressy super compressy
Fireball = still compressed, but not nearly as much. I like both, and tbh preferred the fireball, but the powerball is a bit more controllable on the EQ front

[budda]

note: a good cab really helps things

[Demeyes]

I don't think I'll really need the other channels that much. I can use something else to boost my signal for solo work.
As for cabs, I have a Laney 4x12 but I think I'll pick up a Framus 2x12 for my next head. I'm getting sick of carrying around the half stack.

[LoyK]

I own the Powerball and a Framus CS212 at the moment. But I must say, that I like the Fireball leadsound much more - I thought the Powerball would be a more versatile FB, but that´s wrong. It compresses way too much (for me...)

Go for the FB! If you don´t like it, you can sell it without loosing too much

[Jan]

I wouldn't even consider a Powerball. Too compressed and sterile from what I've heard (from lots of people and some recordings). If you want smooth, saturated, organic distorted sound, go for the Blackmore (I have played one a couple of times and loved it). It's perfect for heavy rock and classical metal (which is your cup of tea I guess)! It can handle death or metalcore too but might lack some punch or tightness in the low end with fast death metal riffing...

If you now you KNOW want to play modern metal stuff and don't need like 4 different channels, go for the Fireball (I own one). It's simple, it's relatively cheap but it's a really piss@d off amp. This is why I went for it instead of the Blackmore (although I sometimes wonder if that was the right decision). It's bit one-trick pony though. Perfect for death metal rhythm (haven't heard a tighter, faster responding amp) but no that good for soloing (slightly too harsh). However, use the neck pickup, some boost pedal to get more saturation/clarity and a reverb and you're home.
It has only one one gain knob for both channels, but it's not really a problem really since the clean channel stays relatively clean even with the dirty channel really dirty. Also, with the right guitar it can be crystal clear - it lacks some warmness though. Here my bandmate's Marshall JCM 2000 definitely wins (have you tried it BTW? It might be what your looking for if you're into classic stuff...). A big advantege of the FB is that despite having only ONE gain knob and EQ for both channels, you get 2 volume settings which you can change with the footswitch and thus you get 2 volume levels for clean and 2 volume levels for the dirty channel. Simple and practical.

If I had mor emoney, I'd probably go for the Invader but Ive never played one yet. So it's really hard to say.

So to sum up: PB - sucks!
Blackmore - VERY cool, might be what you're looking for
FB - simple and affordable, best modern metal rhythm amp IMO
Good luck!

[LordOVchaoS]

I wouldn't go so far as to say the Powerball sucks. I had one and I actually preferred it over the Fireball. There's things you can do to warm it up. A 5751 preamp tube in V1 or V2 tames the gain a bit and gets rid of some of the compression. I put a tung sol in V1 of mine and a 5751 in V2. The tung sol added some dynamics and midrange harmonics while the 5751 opened it up and added some warmth. Even before that I say that the sterility and over compressed qualities of the Powerball are greatly exaggerated by internet forums. It's not that bad at all! I rather enjoyed that amp. Getting rid of the junk stock power tubes for a set of SEDs helped matters a lot as well! Did you guys see this thread? Engl Powerball with Blackmachine and ceramic warpigs vid Are you telling me that sounds like ass?

Anyway... I now own the Invader and it slays the Powerball, Fireball, Blackmore, and any other amp I've ever played be it an Engl or anything else. It's like all my favorite qualities about all the amps I've owned packed into one! Seriously, this amp is capable of nearly any tone you can think of.

[zimbloth]

Tube changes did warm up the Powerball, but it didn't solve its solid-state like responsiveness which just made it flat-out not fun to play. I thought the Fireball absolutely CRUSHED the Powerball in both tone and response.

I'd love to try an ENGL Invader sometime, but I'm pretty content ampwise right now (plus I'm probably going to pick up a VHT Sig:X and Brunetti thru my store )

[LordOVchaoS]

Originally Posted by zimbloth

Tube changes did warm up the Powerball, but it didn't solve its solid-state like responsiveness which just made it flat-out not fun to play. I thought the Fireball absolutely CRUSHED the Powerball in both tone and response.

At the time I was playing Necrophagist, Beneath the Massacre, etc... type music and the solid state feel with benefits of tubes are what I liked so much about the amp! Of you're looking for responsive, organic tone then yea you're not going to like the Powerball. If TIGHT, djenty, stacatto, fast music is your thing then the Powerball is damn near perfect!

[Jan]

OK, maybe I've gone to far saying PB sucks. It's just that other ENGLS are better than the PB, so why waste money on it? But the video you posted sounds really good.

[VforVendetta00]

Originally Posted by LordOVchaoS

I wouldn't go so far as to say the Powerball sucks. I had one and I actually preferred it over the Fireball. There's things you can do to warm it up. A 5751 preamp tube in V1 or V2 tames the gain a bit and gets rid of some of the compression. I put a tung sol in V1 of mine and a 5751 in V2. The tung sol added some dynamics and midrange harmonics while the 5751 opened it up and added some warmth. Even before that I say that the sterility and over compressed qualities of the Powerball are greatly exaggerated by internet forums. It's not that bad at all! I rather enjoyed that amp. Getting rid of the junk stock power tubes for a set of SEDs helped matters a lot as well! Did you guys see this thread? Engl Powerball with Blackmachine and ceramic warpigs vid Are you telling me that sounds like ass?

Anyway... I now own the Invader and it slays the Powerball, Fireball, Blackmore, and any other amp I've ever played be it an Engl or anything else. It's like all my favorite qualities about all the amps I've owned packed into one! Seriously, this amp is capable of nearly any tone you can think of.

yep, the powerball does indeed kick ass, specially that one! all said and done my SE kicks its ass anyday! hehehe

[RussAnderson]

i can get a good lead tone out of the fireball no problems at all .

[zimbloth]

My Fireball had fairly thin sounding lead tones compared VHT, Mesa, etc....but for rhythms it's pretty crushing

I still think that the blackmore is a great amp, that can be found for a reasonable price on ebay.

[Xtremevillan]

Originally Posted by zimbloth

I'd love to try an ENGL Invader sometime, but I'm pretty content ampwise right now (plus I'm probably going to pick up a VHT Sig:X and Brunetti thru my store )

+1 I'm most likely trading in my TR to get this Sig:X SOLELY on zimbloth's recommendations.

Prolly also gonna buy a 5150 just because.

[RussAnderson]

Originally Posted by Desecrated

I still think that the blackmore is a great amp, that can be found for a reasonable price on ebay.

yep but a tad expensive , its not far of the powerballs price the later having dedicated seperate channels were as the blackmore just has 2 switches ?

[zimbloth]

Originally Posted by Xtremevillan

+1 I'm most likely trading in my TR to get this Sig:X SOLELY on zimbloth's recommendations.

Prolly also gonna buy a 5150 just because.

You'll be very happy with that decision I promise.

Originally Posted by LordOVchaoS

At the time I was playing Necrophagist, Beneath the Massacre, etc... type music and the solid state feel with benefits of tubes are what I liked so much about the amp! Of you're looking for responsive, organic tone then yea you're not going to like the Powerball. If TIGHT, djenty, stacatto, fast, music is your thing then the Powerball is damn near perfect!

I respect that, it's just that I can get 'tight, djenty, stacatto fast' response out of the VHT as well, while also getting the benefits of organic, rich, tube-like tone. At least, with a boost and a noise gate

I know you had a brief fling with the VHT, perhaps yours was setup differently, but that's just my take

[Xtremevillan]

Actually to deter this for a quick sec zimbloth I need a speaker cable, two actually, gonna order the Hot Plate, 2 speaker cables, and a bass cable (for friend). any site where I can get them all together (zzsounds?)

[budda]

Originally Posted by Xtremevillan

+1 I'm most likely trading in my TR to get this Sig:X SOLELY on zimbloth's recommendations.

Prolly also gonna buy a 5150 just because.

just because 1 guy recommended it like mad, because he loves the company?

not knocking nick at all, he knows his shit and is a standup guy, but

[Xtremevillan]

I buy all my stuff without trying it, adds to the spice.

[zimbloth]

Originally Posted by budda

just because 1 guy recommended it like mad, because he loves the company?

not knocking nick at all, he knows his shit and is a standup guy, but

Dude he's heard clips of it too. I also don't think it's nuts for someone to want something based on my recommendations. I've bought many things based on what people I respected here thought, such as Noodles, Mike, Drew, etc.

It's not like I'm endorsed by VHT, I just have owned/played practically every amp ever and I really love the amps, I know 'em inside and out. I recommended a 5150 to him too, and I'm not affiliated with Peavey or anything

[budda]

ok, clips were involved, that's good.

like i said, im not knocking you, im just asking if he's making an informed decision - if his tastes arent like yours, he's in for a suprise

time will tell! me, i want to try a VHT. there's a pittbull combo for sale locally, but i cant afford it and have no need - do want to have a go on it before its sold though.

[zimbloth]

Originally Posted by budda

ok, clips were involved, that's good.

like i said, im not knocking you, im just asking if he's making an informed decision - if his tastes arent like yours, he's in for a suprise

time will tell! me, i want to try a VHT. there's a pittbull combo for sale locally, but i cant afford it and have no need - do want to have a go on it before its sold though.

Beware, the Pittbull combo is low gain, more geared towards the blues/country player. Best clean tone ever, but not enough gain for metal even with a boost. Is it the Pittbull 45?

As for the other stuff, I talked to him on AIM extensively about the kind of sound he's going for, the bands he likes, etc... and I recommended the VHT, Bogner, or a 5150. Trust me I don't just blindly recommend VHT to anybody.

[Xtremevillan]

Get on AIM again I need speaker cables