[blackrobedone]

I'm not trying to get bombarded with hate mail and ridicule, but as I've been looking at all the talk about amps like Engl, VHT, Framus, etc. I'm wondering if the tone of these amps won't be looked at 10 years from now the way we look at Kramer guitars and synth axes now. I mean don't all these things pretty much generate the same tone for metal players - ultra clear chunk with low end? (And Marshall and Mesa like tones at certain settings)

You've got to give props: Marshall and Mesa and a few others have been doing that pretty well for decades and the tones that the new amps make aren't new - the new tones just require a little tweaking and effecting for older Mesas and Marshalls. Also, those amps cost a lot more - for what? Hand wiring? As long as it's wired and inspected and works who cares? How much are you paying for the thing to light up and glow in the dark?

I see these posts with guys asking about what gear to get (even 'what's the best $100 distortion pedal?') and the only piece of advice is to drop 3 grand on one of these amps because you get what you pay for - it's true only up to a point. And people that say this or that doesn't have enough gain: JCM 2000 and Triple Rec and 5150 all have gain that goes higher than is useful even if you're in Hate Eternal, so why buy an amp with more gain so you can crank it to 3 and get tone as opposed to cranking the gain to 7?

I'm not dissing people who use Engls and such, but when a 'noob' writes in asking about gear I think the hyperbole about how you have to get this or that boutique amp to get tone should be tempered a bit. I'm also looking to become more educated about these trendy amps.

[Karl Hungus]

Would you really consider Engl, VHT and Framus "Boutique" as such? Boutique amps to me would mean more of a smaller company, hand building amps. Engl aren't hand wired either, and they're actually one of the cheaper brands here in Europe. They'd only cost a lot more for you in the states, while here, a Mesa Boogie would be far, far more expensive than an Engl.

A Mesa Road King is nearly TWICE the price of an Engl Invader to us Euro folks.

I think a company comparable to the above brands would be Soldano, who've been at it for years, and nobody looks back on them as a fad.

[JJ Rodriguez]

I'm not too sure what threads you've been reading. People here don't generally recommend boutique or high end tube amps to people unless they're looking for something along those lines. At least not that I've seen. I've never seen anyone say to a newbie who's only been playing for a little bit "hey, you need to go out and buy a VHT Pittbull because your tone will suck without it". I'm sure even Zimbloth, who's owned every piece of gear you can imagine, started out on a practice amp or something not so big. And the original question of the thread - no. I don't think the tone of todays amps are a "fad". People are still using old school Marshall's and shit, not to mention we're still using tubes for most high end amps. That in itself should tell you something.

[HighGain510]

Originally Posted by blackrobedone

I'm also looking to become more educated about these trendy amps.

I think the problem is that you're looking at it the wrong way. Those companies you mentioned aren't "trendy" amps per se, they just haven't been around as long as Mesa or Marshall. They pop up on here a lot (which is why I could see you thinking they are trendy) but that's because they are mostly geared towards metal musicians and we have a lot more of those on this forum. Look at TGP, for example: Tone King, Budda, Bruno etc. seems to be prevalent over there as more of a "trendy" suggestion for what I would consider a "boutique" amplifier. Are they trendy companies? Not really. Not any more than Marshall or Mesa. They're just newer to the market so there is more discussion about them, especially on here where more guys appreciate the sounds you can get from them.

You also mentioned this:

Originally Posted by blackrobedone

I'm not dissing people who use Engls and such, but when a 'noob' writes in asking about gear I think the hyperbole about how you have to get this or that boutique amp to get tone should be tempered a bit.

Why? If they say, "I want to sound like so-and-so, what amp/effects/etc. do I need to get?" and that player uses one of those brands, you shouldn't tell them to check them out? Or if they say something to the effect of, "I want an aggressive, high gain metal tone, what amps should I look into?" we should only tell them about a list of $500 and under Marshalls? I don't see why we should not mention amps that we've tried and feel sound good. Anywho, I don't feel those companies are "boutique" at all, just another brand to choose from.

[stuh84]

As an addendum, what about those that don't like the tone of Marshall and Mesa? I like some Mesa's, but not all by a long shot, and Marshalls? I DESPISE Marshall amps with a passion. So does that mean I gotta stick with playing without an amp? Hardly.

To me you are saying the same as everyone should just buy Fords and Mercedes because they've been around longer, than the Mazdas, Toyotas, and the like. Sounds like a weird premise to me. I like whats good, not whats old.

[7 Dying Trees]

All depends, personally, I got a 5150 and love it, but I also have a VHT which I love, it all depends. I've tried out a fair few amps, but it's kind of finding that sound in a way if that makes sense. Some of these amps will be classics in the future, some will not stand the test of time.

I mean, boutique amps often do influence more mainstream amps design, look at the SLO100, a pretty expensive amp, but basically it's design heavily influenced the 5150 and the dual rectifier.

In terms of sound, well, playing makes an amp sound good, and no matter how much you spend, if you suck, your sound is going to suck.

ALso, ENGL's over here are reasonable, in fact, the E670SE is the same as an ultralead and the same price as a dual rectifier head. Marshalls are cheap as it's england, so it all depends really.

It's all tonal palette, but one thing is true, and that is that amps that cost a lot generally are tighter and / or more punishing in terms of letting people's playing flaws through.

But amps do go in fads, a few years ago it was all 5150's and dual rectifiers, these days it all seems to be about ENGL, in the 80's it was all about the jcm800...

In short, boutique amps are only really worth it if it's the sound you love out of them. Some will be, others won't. But none of them will make you sound good, all they'll do is reflect what's going in. Shit in = Shit out.

[Ishan]

I'd get anything that sounds great to my hear, I don't care about brand or whatever... That's why I got a Koch amp ( unintentional pun makes me sooo proud )

[7StringofAblicK]

Apparently there has been an Engl and VHT trend and I've been on both

With that said, I tried out MANY amps before I picked the VHT - marshalls, mesas, peavey's, etc, and I chose it objectively. They Engl is great for thrashy metal, but I wanted ELs again

Boutique is a way to classify an amp. If it suits your style then who cares? My tossups were between a JXS, Stiletto and the VHT - none are 'boutique,' per se, but each carries a hefty price tag.

[Nick]

Originally Posted by blackrobedone

I see these posts with guys asking about what gear to get (even 'what's the best $100 distortion pedal?') and the only piece of advice is to drop 3 grand on one of these amps because you get what you pay for - it's true only up to a point. And people that say this or that doesn't have enough gain: JCM 2000 and Triple Rec and 5150 all have gain that goes higher than is useful even if you're in Hate Eternal, so why buy an amp with more gain so you can crank it to 3 and get tone as opposed to cranking the gain to 7?

its all about how the amp handles the gain.

If i go to the studio my band practice in and turn on the DSL that i use in there i need to set the gain a bit higher than i would on my ENGL to get a tone that sounds good to me. However when i do this adding the gain also adds a lot of fizz and doesnt sit well in a mix or band situation. My engl doesnt require the gain cranked as much to get the 'brutal' tone i enjoy and doesnt 'fizz out' the High end metal amps your talking about are better at the job they do.

Also each different brand/amp has vastly different tonal qualities than others its not just a matter of them all providing 'defined chunk' Mesas have a spongy feel Engl Powerballs have a very cutting, some would say, processed tone.

And finally a lot of folk come on and say im jamming in my bedroom etc and im thinking of buying an amp in the $700 region what one should i buy. people tend to recommend some slightly more expensive amps if they are just slightly out of the price range and say 'just save a little bit mroe and get a.....'

Musical gear is something where you should always buy the very best you can afford because if you dont you will make your purchase and still want the better model, usually resulting in unstoppable gas you selling and then buying the more expensive one anyway

rant\

[Ishan]

I own myself an old Engl preamp (E620), I love to brag on how rare it is, it makes me tingly all over...







j/k.

I can understand how someone would find Engl trendy (at least in europe they are a bit) as many dumbasses buy powerballs over here "because that's what -insert name- use!". That's pretty lame but ultimatly they sound great and have a voice of their own (I'd die for a Screamer head!)