[zimbloth]

Originally Posted by blackrobedone

I'm not trying to get bombarded with hate mail and ridicule, but as I've been looking at all the talk about amps like Engl, VHT, Framus, etc. I'm wondering if the tone of these amps won't be looked at 10 years from now the way we look at Kramer guitars and synth axes now. I mean don't all these things pretty much generate the same tone for metal players - ultra clear chunk with low end? (And Marshall and Mesa like tones at certain settings)

You've got to give props: Marshall and Mesa and a few others have been doing that pretty well for decades and the tones that the new amps make aren't new - the new tones just require a little tweaking and effecting for older Mesas and Marshalls. Also, those amps cost a lot more - for what? Hand wiring? As long as it's wired and inspected and works who cares? How much are you paying for the thing to light up and glow in the dark?

I see these posts with guys asking about what gear to get (even 'what's the best $100 distortion pedal?') and the only piece of advice is to drop 3 grand on one of these amps because you get what you pay for - it's true only up to a point. And people that say this or that doesn't have enough gain: JCM 2000 and Triple Rec and 5150 all have gain that goes higher than is useful even if you're in Hate Eternal, so why buy an amp with more gain so you can crank it to 3 and get tone as opposed to cranking the gain to 7?

I'm not dissing people who use Engls and such, but when a 'noob' writes in asking about gear I think the hyperbole about how you have to get this or that boutique amp to get tone should be tempered a bit. I'm also looking to become more educated about these trendy amps.

1) Your "10 years later" analogy is ruined because companies like VHT and other awesome boutique amps have been going strong for well over 10 years and they have a supreme reputation and legacy in the community. The Pittbulls have been around since 1992 I believe. Bogner, Soldano, etc have been around as well.

2) Your post really screams of "I can't really afford a Framus or a VHT so I'll just convince myself that they don't offer anything over a Marshall or a Peavey". If I'm wrong, I apologize, but that's what it sounds like, because you're really missing the point. Of course mass produced amps like ENGLs, Peaveys, Marshalls, etc sound great - you don't NEED a VHT or a Soldano - but there is definitely something special most boutique amps offer that most mass-produced amps don't. They often think of things the other guys don't, and there's a far greater attention to detail. What sounds best on the other hand, is up to you. For what it's worth, you can get used VHT's for very affordable prices (~$1200 and up).

3) ENGL is no different than Peavey or Marshall, they're not boutique amps. They only have that vibe to a lot of people in the USA because until recently they were almost impossible to find here. Now that there's 5353 dealers, they're getting to be a lot more common. Framus I would probably classify as a boutique amp but I'm not an expert on them.

4) VHT is a boutique amp, as someone else said, they are the very definition of a boutique amp. Small company, hand-wired, designed and often built by one man (Steve Freyette). In the case of VHT, you really do get what you pay for. They don't sound anything like Mesa or a Marshall, they have their own unique sound that you can only get with a VHT. That's the point you're completely missing.

[JJ Rodriguez]

Zimblwned.

[7 Strings of Hate]

ah!, the perverbial zimblwning, we've all had one havent we

[Crucified]

zimblown't actually. Keep up with current internets, gosh.

[7 Strings of Hate]

right on kevin, right on

[Kakaka]

Originally Posted by WarriorOfMetal

Framus, I'm not sure about, i haven't done much research on them. however, it seems to me that people consider all the less-common (in the US, at least) German and otherwise non-British amps to be "boutique" which is often wrong.


* WarriorOfMetal owns Engl and VHT amps

* 1946: The foundation of 'Franconian Musical Instruments by Fred A. Wilfer KG' in Erlangen, Germany to help resettle luthiers displaced from Schönbach/Sudetenland.
* 1954: A larger factory is built in Bubenreuth, Germany to house the 300-strong workforce
* 1967: Further expansion then saw the building of a second facility in Pretzfeld, Germany
* 1975: The rapidly changing market forced the company into bankruptcy
* 1995: Framus musical instruments are being produced again under Warwick GmbH & Co Music Equipment KG in Markneukirchen (Germany) command.

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by 7 Strings of Hate

ah!, the perverbial zimblwning, we've all had one havent we

I haven't I don't think, but I stay out of his path.

[7 Dying Trees]

Well, most has been said, but another thing to consider, is that mesa claims to be hand built as well, does that make them boutique? For me, here in the UK, despite them being a well known brand, I'd say they are up there with expensive amps.

Boutique, well, I'd be looking at Dierzel, Bogner, Brunetti et all, very uncommon amps, and here in the UK I don't think I've ever seen a VHT before with my own eyes weirdly enough. ENGL's are becoming more common because of the buzz around them. Personally, I'll buy that powerball when everyone decides they don't want them anymore.

It's all about a few things really, and as far as boutique being a fad, I actually think that what we are seeing is more people on message boards egging each other on to get an amp more exotic than the next, but also, at the same time, people know more about what's out there and hence the choice expands. 12 years ago I knew nothing about mesa and thought marshall was the coolest brand on the planet, gradually I've learnt more, but you could only know about what you could see in shops, and boutique amps weren't in shops.

These days however, you can see all these amps and drool over them on the internet. Whether that's a good thing? In some cases yes, variety is good. In terms of trend hopping it is absolutely awfull. The past year or two it's all been about ENGL, before that it was all about the mesa dual and triple rectifiers, in a few years it'll be a different amp company that all the kids want.

I've dropped a fair amount of money on gear, but it's always been researched, and to be honest, when i got the VHT it was the soundclips online that swayed me as I was saving up for the Diezel VH4 which I did really want to try out (and there were a few on the bay). I'm glad I got VHT though, as Diezel to me really at the moment is a fad boutique amp. Honest, but true. i'd like to own one at some point, but it's not going to happen for a long while.

So, I don't think they'll be looked at badly, but they will be superceded, just like the 5150 no longer is the metal amp kids want, as it's now the ENGL powerball/Invader. Which is precisely why I don't want either. To be difficult? Nah, to be honest, it's more because i want to sound different.

[Randy]

Originally Posted by 7 Dying Trees

ENGL's are becoming more common because of the buzz around them. Personally, I'll buy that powerball when everyone decides they don't want them anymore.

Ex-fucking-actly.

[garcia3441]

Originally Posted by WarriorOfMetal

I had one just like it.