[7StringofAblicK]

The Pball is a beast of its own. I haven't owned a ton of amps, but it definitely stands out in the mix as one of the best metal amps I've played.

Very sleek and tight, but with JJs it doesn't sound as 'processed' as people claim it to be. IMO, it is clinical and unforgiving, so if you're sloppy the amp will let you know. My $0.02

[Kakaka]

I think some part of the past will always be looked at as cheesy by some groups.

But this world we live in now doesn't throw things away totally like in the past.
Because it seems that the globe is big enough to hold of the tastes.
So, though it is nearly always possible to detect bigger trends, the mainstreams, there are many somewhat 'marginal' groups culturing diverse tastes, likes and uses.

And about the amps sound itself, I think that gain amount is not the only thing that defines the preference for these modern amps you said over Marshalls and friends.
But the way the gain stages excite different frequencies. And the Marshall distortion doesn't reach the more brutal voicing it takes to sound like, say The Black Dahlia Murder.

Though Trivium used the JCM2000 in early days, I'm positive they endorse Peavey right now posing for pics with 6505s, but on stage they're seen with MESA Roadkings.
And I consider them to represent the contemporary tone to some extent.

[bostjan]

VHT's are pretty common in a lot of rock bands and even country bands.

Every amp sounds different from every other amp to me- no matter how you set the dials on a Dual Recto, it won't sound like a Fireball.

I have to take the contrary position to yours. I think that boutique amps are great if you can afford them. And why not? Same goes for guitars.

I do not understand the synth guitar analogy nor the Kramer analogy. Synth guitars are cool, and Kramers were never boutique guitars, they were cheapish mediocre-quality instruments that ended up being balsa-wood junk before the company folded.

[Randy]

Originally Posted by bostjan

I do not understand the synth guitar analogy nor the Kramer analogy. Synth guitars are cool, and Kramers were never boutique guitars, they were cheapish mediocre-quality instruments that ended up being balsa-wood junk before the company folded.

My guess is that he was referring the fad part of things. Pictures of Kramers and keytars were a dime a dozen in guitar magazine circa 1985, and they're not very common in those same magazine nowadays.

[ENDITOL]

I can get tones I like out of plenty of amps, boutique or non. There are other factors that made me lean towards smaller companies such as customer service, quality and features. I can't talk to the designer of Marshalls or Mesas anytime and I've both of those brands break down on me.

[blackrobedone]

Thanks for the posts. It's an interesting thread even if my initial arguments get smoked!

I appreciate that nobody called me out on having never played one of the amps that I was talking about (Engl, VHT, etc.). I haven't. I was thinking of buying one, but I kind of like the grunginess of my Triple Rec for death metal as opposed to what those other types of amps supposedly offer in terms of clarity and punch.

On the other hand, I play a JCM 800 for other stuff and I hate having to compensate for its lack of low end. (Treble on 3 Presence on 2 and Bass on 10 and still ear-piercing!) However, I don't know if it's worth it to pay $2000 for one of these other amps used, when I could just use an eq on the Marshall (or get another Mesa).

The question is - here in the US, where a commonly available, used Marshall tube head is about $800 and a Mesa is about $1000 - is an Engl Powerball twice the amp? Is a VHT Pittbull 3 times better than a Marshall? It's not a rhetorical question!

I ask because I am on a budget so I feel I need to get it right the first time and not say, "Should've bought the Cobra!" or "Should've stayed with the Marshall!" after I blow 2 months wages on something else.

[JJ Rodriguez]

Jesus, if you got a Triple Rec dude, then you're set. No one would tell you to trade that shit in unless you were unhappy with it. You have a high end amp as it is. For a price comparison, you're used triple rec would probably cost me what my Framus Dragon did. If you can snag a deal on ebay on a VHT UL, it's probably around the same. I think you're just overestimating the price. A Powerball is only twice a used marshall new. Same with the UL.

[WarriorOfMetal]

Engl is *not* "boutique"....also, they've been around since at least the '80s. even the Savage 120 has been around since the early '90s i believe.

Framus, I'm not sure about, i haven't done much research on them. however, it seems to me that people consider all the less-common (in the US, at least) German and otherwise non-British amps to be "boutique" which is often wrong.

VHT (and i'm directing this at you, ), i would definitely consider "boutique" as they're a small company hand-building very high-end amps...which is pretty much the definition of the term.



* WarriorOfMetal owns Engl and VHT amps

[JJ Rodriguez]

They say Framus are hand wired (at least in the sites I look at) which I thought was another definition of "boutique". I didn't know VHT were hand wired, that's cool. Personally I don't give a shit if a guitar/amp is made by hand, as long as it's high quality and sounds good. Hell, Norbert is my first high end amp ever, so I really shouldn't be participating in the high end amp conversation It's just my opinion. Hell, if you're happy with the sound you get out of a cheap amp, whether it be solid or tube, then there's no reason to change. I don't think anyone on this site would ever recommend anyone dump something they're perfectly happy with and blow a bunch of money on something.

[WarriorOfMetal]

on the back of my VHT, it says, "Handbuilt by rockers in the U.S.A." and even the serial number is hand-written