I'd appreciate some thoughts on a potential amp change... Am I downgrading?

[Rook]

I have a Mesa Roadster (as my signature makes fairly obvious) and today I tried a Bogner Uberschall, the Twin Jet. This is the first Bogner I've ever tried and I was totally stunned. I had no expectations for it whatsoever and just tried it because we were there, it was an hour or so away so I may as well. I used my own guitar (JPX) through it into the same cab that I have and was absolutely floored by it, it really appealed to me unexpectedly. They even had a Roadster in the same room which I played with and to my ears it sounded the same as mine so I had a 'control' as it were.

I do love my Roadster, for years it's been great and I wasn't looking to change it, and it's not because I don't like it that I tried the Uberschall. This also wasn't the first tight, high power amp I've tried so I wasn't being overwhelmed by that, I've tried VHT, Diezel, ENGL (pretty much the whole line), Mesa Mark series amps...

So here's why I'm making a thread.

1) If anyone has any decent experience living with Bogner (yes I used the search function) and could first give me any thoughts about reliability etc that'd be amazing.

2) More importantly, if anyone has a suggestion for a different head of their's I should try out before pulling the trigger on this, that'd be grand. If there's nothing else in their line with the Channel 2 sound near identical to the Uber, I'm probably not interested.

3) The Twin jet doesn't have a clean clean channel. I didn't spend too much time over it in the shop because I was so dazzled by the 'hot rod' gain of Channel 1 and the ridiculous power of Channel 2. Bogner claim coil splitting and single coils will make Channel 1 produce high headroom clean cleans, can anyone attest to this? In all honesty, if I'm using a humbucker for cleans I like a touch of breakup, that's fine, and I only ever want clean cleans if I'm splitting and going for that glassy 'Pull Me Under' type clean. If anyone's ever managed a good clean out of the Twin Jet I'd love to hear about it before I go back to try it again. My concern, however, is that it'll just be a repeat of my 3CH Dual Rectifier or 6505+ with their god awful clean channels. Which leads me to....

4) Am I downgrading? Make of that what you will.

Cheers.

BTW I can't afford to have both, and I'm trying to comfort myself with the knowledge that if it goes tits up I can by another Roadie, but I do have rather an attachment to this particular one for reasons I won't go into.

[Scar Symmetry]

IMO no-one can tell you what's good for you.

If you felt like there was a night-and-day difference, go for it, you're not likely to feel differently any time soon unless there was something that severely influenced how you felt at the time.

[Rook]

Mmmm I appreciate that, for sure, I've said it to other people so many times. I was mostly wondering if anyone knows a clever way of getting a good clean sound. If I can manage that I'll do it, lol.

Pending the sale of my Roadster that is.

[Scar Symmetry]

I don't know if this is at all useful to you, but I recently acquired a 6505+ and I know most people think they are incapable of good clean sounds, with the help of a delay pedal and rolling back the tone knob I've actually managed to get a really good clean out of it.

Where there's a will, there's a way.

[Rook]

Yeah I gave up on the cleans on my 6505+ It wasn't for me anyway, lol, I probably would have made an effort if I really gelled with the amp.

[Stealthdjentstic]

What you could do is pick up a cheaper pod and a/b it for cleans.

[beneharris]

Originally Posted by Stealthtastic

What you could do is pick up a cheaper pod and a/b it for cleans.

thats a good idea. ^

i've heard of people using compressors/eq and other pedals to clean up the clean channels on the 6505 series, so maybe that will help with the twin jet? it almost seems silly to have a whole bevy of pedals just to get a useable clean channel, though.

[MaxOfMetal]

You are definitely not downgrading as Bogner makes some of the best amps out there in my opinion. The quality and service is astounding.

While it's not a mega-tight chug machine take a look at the Ecstasy as well. The Plexi mode is lead city.

[Shadowspecced]

I wouldn't say that's downgrading, I like my uberschall twin jet better then the roadster a million times over, but then I also have a recto, so that could help. It's really up to you, but as far as quality, and value is concerned, no definitely not downgrading.

Edit: Mine is un-modded, and if I want to I can set the first channel up really clean at pretty damn high volume, so I don't know why people have a problem. The neck humbucker on my Suhr is pretty high output and it's still clean with that, although when I tap it, it is a little cleaner, and in my opinion, better sounding as a whole. But I also like neck singles better for clean than anything else.

[Albionic]

do it! i always think i should have 2 channels but tbh i cant remember last time i played clean in my band

[Rook]

Thanks guys, I'm really looking forward to trying it again, probably going down there wednesday.

I had thought of buying an Axe FX and 4CM'ing it for cleans, which I'd love to do, in fact that'd be my ideal but I'm a way off being able to afford an Axe, I'm supposed to be saving for a JPXI7, and wasn't planning on getting an Axe til around Christmas. It'd also mean even if I'm 'travelling light', I'd have to take the Axe.

Bogner + Axe would be a winning combination for me absolutely, I love SS/Digital cleans but Money becomes an issue then. I'll also be gigging in a month or two so I almost definitely won't have an Axe by then unless I get lucky, sell my RG2228, have change from my Roadie and earn lots of tips!

Which is possible I guess...

Damn you guys for activating my GAS.

Is it worth me trying the Rev Blue? I'd have to find one which could be tough... The shop I tried the Twin Jet has a Shiva and Ecstasy so I'll give'm a go when I'm there next.

[SirMyghin]

A few questions for you, is this a complacancy / honey moon effect going on. You are used to your roadster, maybe one is not so much 'better' as just different. This is something to be very careful with when plotting a trade off like this. If it all possible, I would say something akin to, find a way to get ahold of the bogner alongside the mesa for at least a month. That would allow you to really get a solid feel and past the initial awe period.

I know you say you can't afford both, but I would say don't rush into purchases. The grass isn't always greener, and what I said above is a lot of the reason. I know you have some nice gear, which means you have the ability to raise the capital, don't fall into the need it now mode of though, or you may regret it. If you end up with both for a period of time, you can then properly decide which one is for you, then likely sell without regrets.

[Stealthdjentstic]

Save up, buy both. Run them together...release the gear whore inside!

[Strobe]

I love that Uberschall. If you want a pristine clean, there are other versions of it that do not have the semi-clean channel one. I have not played the twin jet, but I have played the other model (revision blue?) with the pristine clean. God damn I love the Uberschall. There is a used one at a local guitar shop and I have to convince myself regularly not to go buy it (so far successful - but I do not know how long I can hold out). The gain on that thing stays focused through the entire sweep, and it has more bass than a guitar amplifier rightfully should (in a good way - a good unholy way). It sounds kick ass for rhythm while having a rather distinctive lead tone which I also love. I am not sure how we it cuts through live - but I have a near obsession with that amp. Those things way a ton - because they have huge, quality transformers in them. Honestly, I would consider the Bogner to be on a higher level than the Mesa Boogie (or at least, not a downgrade). I think you will find the Bogner less versatile than the Mesa - but what it does it does realy well. I am quite curious about the Twin Jet - I heard someone mention Channel 1 can cover JCM800 territory. Does it do that sort of thing, is it more Plexi-like, or is it a different beast entirely.

If you buy this and post a HOT NAD thread, my GAS may nearly kill me.

[mhenson42]

I would look at going from a Mesa to a Bogner as a major upgrade. I prefer the Rev. Blue over the Twin Jet I had, but the TJ is a cool amp. You can have Bogner do the Purple Mod on it, which makes channel one more clean.

[Rook]

Thanks guys

I think I'm gunna go play it again, if I want it I'm gunna wait it out and pick up a Rev Blue used (should be a bit easier to find and cheaper than the TJ) an do as Myghin says and live with them both probably.

Unless I am truly so blown away that I do something stupid but I haven't so far.

[Ribboz]

Bogners are great amps and very reliable. Bogner and his staff are awesome fellows to deal with. Its hard to go wrong with them.
But (and many will disagree) bogners goal was sort of to create the studio-esq godly tone we imagine but coming straight out of the cab. I felt though this affected some of the response and feel of the amps. They lack a certain raw feel and oomph. I'll admit i haven't tried the uber, but this is coming from experience of three versions of the xtc and the shiva.
But they are awesome amps. I really hope the uber is awesome. I always thought it was sort of under rated. It always seemed like the metal players jumped to other brands for their brutals.

Side note, you mentioned about other amp recommendations. SLO? XD you know i gave up the roadster for it. And dont say you tried an avenger or something. I found them very different.

[Strobe]

Originally Posted by Fun111

Unless I am truly so blown away that I do something stupid but I haven't so far.

Be strong... for both of us.

[budda]

Do you use all 4 channels, do you want to use your volume knob for those in-between sounds, etc?

I was happy with the tone I had dialed in last week, tweaked it for the umpteenth time before no-drummer band practice yesterday and damn - I sound pretty good right now!

[Rook]

Little bit of an update.

I went back and tried the Twin Jet today and once again it totally blew me away, HOWEVER, I plugged it and the shop's brand new Roadster into the same cab that I have, took my guitar, my cables and my Maxon. I also tried both amps at much higher volumes and guess what, the Roadster really killed it for me, even unboosted, I loved it.

So I can away with a new set of 6L6's (Mesa branded) for my Roadster, as mine are nearly 3 years old, and already my Roadster has come back from the dead a little. I don't have the cash for preamp tube right this minute, but I'll be swapping some out next week when I have money for it.

I'm sticking with the Roadster for sure! I would love an Uber though, cracking amp.

[schecterdamienelite7fr]

I own a bogner uberschall. To get my cleans I use an MXR clean boost pedal and then roll the gain back on the amp. You will have to paly around but once you find it you will be astounded just as you were hearing the amp for the first time. I sold my road king for the uberschall. Maybe an attenuator cold help you roll off some edge on the clean channel. I hope this helps you in your quest for that eluding clean tone we all hope for

[Rook]

I actually did use a clean boost on the Twin Jet and I got some amazing clean and Marshall-esque seriously mid-boosted overdrive sounds, sounded amazing.

I really want one of these heads, don't get me wrong, I REALLY want one, but as well as my Roadie.

[budda]

Two is better then one in this case .

I also would love some new 12AX7's in mine!