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Unread 09-25-2011, 01:16 PM   #976
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowHead View Post
Incorrect. Pod 1 and pod 2 was the most significant change of all, actually. But it was still the same method of modeling, they just re-modeled a few of the amps and added a few new ones.

Line 6's own words say it's the first complete overhaul of their modeling. I'm not talking about updating a tone, or adding a new amp. I'm taking about a complete overhaul of the way they MODEL the amps from the ground up. And this is the first time it's happened.

But since I doubt you'll believe me - take Line 6's word for it:

"Over a decade ago, Line 6 helped pioneer a new technology called amp modeling that was designed to give musicians access to a range of celebrated tones for performing and recording.

We kept refining our modeling technology as we continued building modeling products, pushing the limits of the modeling tools that we work in. But one day we realized we had taken our existing modeling technology as far as it could go, and the decision was made to tear it all down and start again. The HD amp modeling seed was planted, and it grew into largest Line 6 research project in years."


For the record, I have owned every product I spoke of, from guitarport, toneport, XT, X3, right up to my current HD. I also followed the software end from Amp Farm to Guitarport to Gearbox to Pod Farm and Pod Farm 2. I am very familiar with the history of line 6's models from experience.

POD HD is the first product that sounds and plays absolutely nothing like any of the previous incarnations. It is different in every way. Not just tweaked, not just re-sampled. COMPLETELY different modeling technology.
I was mainly talking about the way the models actually sounded, not the technology those sounds were achieved with. The XT sounded completely different than the previous Pods. And the X3 sounded pretty much the same as the XT.

I'm not saying you're wrong about this, it seems you've done your research (although I'd take the Line 6 statement with a grain of salt, since after all, it's Line6. There's a marketing agenda behind every statement they make about their products), but as I mentioned, I was referring to the way the Pods sound. And in that regard, the XT has much more in common with the X3 than the Pod and Pod 2.0.
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Unread 09-25-2011, 02:47 PM   #977
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I was mainly talking about the way the models actually sounded, not the technology those sounds were achieved with.
Over the years there's been updates and tweaks, but they've applied pretty much across the board, including older gear. the POD 1 to POD 2 was a big step because I believe they went from 16 bit to 24, thus causing incompatibility in the hardware.

In other words, the updates around the time they released the XT were made available for toneport, POD 2, etc... - same with the X3. Around it's release, I got a firmware upgrade for my XT. There is still not a single sound released up til the HD that I cannot go back, plug in my toneport, and update there as well. The only limitations is hardware - like trying to use a dual tone preset from the X3 on the XT, etc...

What I'm pretty sure happened is that after they amassed a huge collection of models, the people designing the algorithms left line 6 - afterwards everything seemed to just be a repackaging and tweaking on those same basic properties. (I remember reading about the mass exodus of talent from Line 6 on the forums back in the Guitar-port days) Now 10 years later, they've finally fallen far enough behind to bring new modeling to the table, instead of continuing to concentrate on hardware variations.

This is just the beginning. If they went from 12 Models to 128 on 10 year old devices via updates and addons, imagine what's in store for the POD HD?
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Unread 09-26-2011, 05:46 AM   #978
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Quote:
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It is a massive step up from Pod Farm. Pod Farm, Pod Farm 2, Gearbox, Pod, Pod 2, Pod XT, Pod X3, Toneport, etc... have all used the same exact soundset for many many years. For example, Pod XT was Pod 2 with two included bundles of the 4 available. Pod X3 was the same sounds, but with all 4 bundles included and the ability to stack two sounds at once. (better processor.) Same thing going from guitarport to toneport to gearbox to Pod Farm. The same modeled sounds over and over and over for 10 years, just mixed up in different packages and presentations.

Pod HD is a whole new shebang, from the ground up. The response, sounds, and usability of all the amp models is wholly new. Go to a store and try one if you have any hesitation. BUILD A TONE FROM SCRATCH, do not use presets. The presets are 100% overdone and sound like ass.
Cheers dude!!! I'm getting a good deal on a HD 500 this week so will post back here when I play through it.
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Unread 09-26-2011, 06:16 AM   #979
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Ill stick with my x3 the Hd has too many frustrating things like lack of bass models as one example. I will say the tone is noticeably better but it still isn't as versatile Imho.
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Unread 09-26-2011, 09:49 AM   #980
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Ill stick with my x3 the Hd has too many frustrating things like lack of bass models as one example. I will say the tone is noticeably better but it still isn't as versatile Imho.
Why did you need bass models? Line 6 dropped them because they were a joke. For recording, most people DI bass - not mic an amp. For live gigging, well - are you a gigging bassist? In this case it's a legit complaint, but how many POD users are gigging bassists? Not really the target audience.

Adding the bass models into the PODs was just a way for Line 6 to drop support for the Bass Pods - because NO ONE wanted them! I loved my Pod XT, but never for a moment will I pretend those bass models were anything even close to useful.

Start looking at your favorite bass sounds/recordings, and see just how many of those were created using a mic on a bass amp vs. how may were a D.I.
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Unread 09-26-2011, 09:55 AM   #981
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Cheers dude!!! I'm getting a good deal on a HD 500 this week so will post back here when I play through it.
Good luck, man! I hope you love it. Remember, don't get discouraged by the presets. I have no idea the logic behind it, but the presets they created for the HD are awful! I think they're just designed to get your attention across a busy music store. There's nothing very usable about them.
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Unread 09-26-2011, 11:21 AM   #982
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Just FYI the entire periphery album is all line 6 pod bass tones.

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Unread 09-26-2011, 12:15 PM   #983
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Just FYI the entire periphery album is all line 6 pod bass tones.
Is that why everyone is so hell bent on the bass pod models?

I love the periphery album. Personally I consider nothing on that album bass-wise something that couldn't be done direct with a handful of plugins just as easily if you took his bass pod away.

It's just not a feature that should be considered when deciding on a Pod HD for GUITARS. Because when it comes to tracking bass you can get a great tone direct without an amp of any kind - so why worry about modeling the amp? Is it important enough to settle on inferior guitar models?

Is Periphery using the POD bass models because they're using the POD guitar models? No. So if you're looking for bass models, emulate Periphery if you like, but when you switch back to guitar you may find those old pod tones lacking. Periphery did, didn't they?

I concede, if you're looking for bass models you may not want a POD HD. But if you're looking for guitar models, you will likely prefer the sound and feel of the HD models. A lot. It's the single biggest improvement on my guitar rig in over 10 years as a dedicated line 6 user.



TLDR: Misha can get amazing tone out of a shoebox, if that was what he had. I wouldn't model my gear choices around his, but rather take inspiration of all the great sounds he's gotten with whatever he has at his disposal. Even his original POD tones are better than anything I've heard done with a regular POD.
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Unread 09-26-2011, 12:26 PM   #984
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I don't think anyone was suggesting that bass models are a crucial part of the pod. It just doesn't really make sense to get rid of something that plenty of people were using. It's nice to have options. "Just use DI" isn't really a good answer.
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Unread 09-26-2011, 03:10 PM   #985
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Bass users can get a Bass Pod end of story XD
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Unread 09-26-2011, 03:16 PM   #986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowHead View Post
Is that why everyone is so hell bent on the bass pod models?

I love the periphery album. Personally I consider nothing on that album bass-wise something that couldn't be done direct with a handful of plugins just as easily if you took his bass pod away.

It's just not a feature that should be considered when deciding on a Pod HD for GUITARS. Because when it comes to tracking bass you can get a great tone direct without an amp of any kind - so why worry about modeling the amp? Is it important enough to settle on inferior guitar models?

Is Periphery using the POD bass models because they're using the POD guitar models? No. So if you're looking for bass models, emulate Periphery if you like, but when you switch back to guitar you may find those old pod tones lacking. Periphery did, didn't they?

I concede, if you're looking for bass models you may not want a POD HD. But if you're looking for guitar models, you will likely prefer the sound and feel of the HD models. A lot. It's the single biggest improvement on my guitar rig in over 10 years as a dedicated line 6 user.



TLDR: Misha can get amazing tone out of a shoebox, if that was what he had. I wouldn't model my gear choices around his, but rather take inspiration of all the great sounds he's gotten with whatever he has at his disposal. Even his original POD tones are better than anything I've heard done with a regular POD.
There is just no contest between a Pod HD and any other pod. I've A/B'd the Recto models on my Flextone III XL vs having the Pod HD through the effects loop and there is just no comparison. Get the best tone you can afford.

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I don't think anyone was suggesting that bass models are a crucial part of the pod. It just doesn't really make sense to get rid of something that plenty of people were using. It's nice to have options. "Just use DI" isn't really a good answer.
Personally, I disagree with this statement. You can use the Pod HD as an interface and record any bass tracks with free plugins that will sound better than the old Pod bass models. I for one, prefer the focused nature of the Pod HD on producing excellent guitar tones.

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Bass users can get a Bass Pod end of story XD
I just don't see the lack of bass models as a deciding factor in the purchase of a Pod HD. Chances are if enough people pester Line 6 for some bass models, they'll add them in a patch, that's kind how they roll

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Unread 09-27-2011, 04:04 PM   #987
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I don't think anyone was suggesting that bass models are a crucial part of the pod. It just doesn't really make sense to get rid of something that plenty of people were using. It's nice to have options. "Just use DI" isn't really a good answer.
Someone a few pages back I believe suggested they weren't interested in the unit because it lacked the bass models and only had 22 amps.

It IS nice to have options. But even in pro studios, where many of your favorite albums are recorded, and rooms are filled wall to wall with amps, effects, and options galore - Bass is typically recorded with a DI. Even with all those other options. It's definitely a good answer, and it's WHY the bass models never caught on. They were targeted at LIVE musicians, not as studio sounds. Rarely do bass amps get miced up in the studio. (in b4 someone yells "TOOL" in response)

Like others have said as well - if you need bass sounds there are a bajillion free options. both modeling and simple Direct Input and vst. It's just not something to cry about losing. I was BUMMED when I got my HD500 and the bass models were gone. But more often than not I find a fresh $20 pack of strings (I AM CHEAP AS ....), DI, with a compression VST on the input gives me a far FAR FAR better sound than anything I got out of the POD over the years.

If you want options, you can do a ton of stuff. DI your bass. Now double the track. Put a little gain on the second using one of your plugins (or even your pod ), and tuck it under the original track. Eq it slightly differently, and blend the volume of the two tracks to taste. You'll get a HUGE bass sound, and with only a few minutes and some freebie plugins.

I just never, ever, in 10+ years of perusing the line 6 forums and modeling fourms, have seens so many people suddenly give a shit about those AWFUL line 6 bass tones. I was GLEEFUL a few years back when I traded a friend my old bass kidney bean for an empty 4 space rack. It was like AIDS for bass tone. The poor bass never stood a chance.
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Unread 10-04-2011, 05:58 PM   #988
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Out of curiosity, has anyone (besides me) tried mixing the same amp model with different sag/bias/hum settings? I made a patch trying to emulate Petrucci's rhythm tone for "On the Backs of Angels" using that method. While I didn't succeed in capturing the strange warble Petrucci has I did wind up with a seriously awesome tone.

Essentially, 1 side is a Recto model, one with a really low sag / hum setting (to get a super dry, more Mark style tone) and the other side is another Recto with relatively the same EQ with about 70% sag and 30-40% hum and a little higher bias & excursion to try and capture the crazy output tube compression. I used different mic models on both. Just A/B'd each individually and picked the one that best captured the core tone.

It sounds so good I'm thinking about doing the same thing to the other patches I've made already that are chiefly dry amp tones. It really adds a lot of depth and sounds much more like playing with an amp in the room through headphones.

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Unread 10-04-2011, 06:07 PM   #989
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Originally Posted by Mordacain View Post
Out of curiosity, has anyone (besides me) tried mixing the same amp model with different sag/bias/hum settings? I made a patch trying to emulate Petrucci's rhythm tone for "On the Backs of Angels" using that method. While I didn't succeed in capturing the strange warble Petrucci has I did wind up with a seriously awesome tone.

Essentially, 1 side is a Recto model, one with a really low sag / hum setting (to get a super dry, more Mark style tone) and the other side is another Recto with relatively the same EQ with about 70% sag and 30-40% hum and a little higher bias & excursion to try and capture the crazy output tube compression. I used different mic models on both. Just A/B'd each individually and picked the one that best captured the core tone.

It sounds so good I'm thinking about doing the same thing to the other patches I've made already that are chiefly dry amp tones. It really adds a lot of depth and sounds much more like playing with an amp in the room through headphones.
Sounds awesome man. You wouldn't be able to make a clip of that would you?

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Unread 10-04-2011, 06:46 PM   #990
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Sounds awesome man. You wouldn't be able to make a clip of that would you?
+1 to that

I just got the HD500, i must hear this
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Unread 10-04-2011, 06:51 PM   #991
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Sounds awesome man. You wouldn't be able to make a clip of that would you?
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+1 to that

I just got the HD500, i must hear this
Yea, I'll see if I can just make a simple dry recording of it in Reaper tonight when I get off work. Will be my first DI test of it as well.

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Unread 10-04-2011, 06:55 PM   #992
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Is there a way I can post the .l6t patch file with a post here? I could probably just attach it to the post with a soundcloud clip if so.

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Unread 10-05-2011, 02:20 AM   #993
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Ok, let's see if this works:

Link for now, trying to get embedded player working
Treadplate by Morda Cain on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

So yea, no post-processing or EQ of anykind, just my Standard Strat in standard tuning with Dimarzio's (58,67,Tonezone S). Not playing a tune, just lots of different snippets of different styles. I've thought it really cool I could roll off the volume a bit and get different tones just like a real amp so I did that in parts for some of the bluesier bits.

Incase anyone hasn't seen me say it before, I don't really play metal per se and I'm sure it shows

And if anyone knows how I can share the tone patch I'll gladly do so.
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Unread 10-05-2011, 02:57 AM   #994
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That sounds pretty fantastic man! Bet it would sound fat in a mix. Way better than any fizzy XT or X3 tone I had. I wish you continued that Petrucci riff

I reckon you have to upload the patch to line 6's site or another hosting website; try google docs if you have a gmail account or go make a dropbox account!

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Unread 10-05-2011, 03:51 AM   #995
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Ok, let's see if this works:

Link for now, trying to get embedded player working
Treadplate by Morda Cain on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

So yea, no post-processing or EQ of anykind, just my Standard Strat in standard tuning with Dimarzio's (58,67,Tonezone S). Not playing a tune, just lots of different snippets of different styles. I've thought it really cool I could roll of the volume a bit and get different tones just like a real amp.

Incase anyone hasn't seen me say it before, I don't really play metal per se and I'm sure it shows

And if anyone knows how I can share the tone patch I'll gladly do so.
Man, sounds awesome !
Thanks for posting this!

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Unread 10-05-2011, 10:36 AM   #996
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Isan posted it through MediaFire

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isan View Post
Alright ladies !
My hd500 patch, based off of Strizzwald by Bulb

It is for FRFR and I use a mahogany guitar with a tone zone...

ZJENTy2.h5e
For some reason i cant go the website to hear it

I would really like to hear it, cant wait till you find a way to share the patch

Edit: I was finally able to hear it, pretty sweet tone man!
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Unread 10-05-2011, 02:01 PM   #997
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Cool guys, thanks for the kudos.

I went ahead and setup a mediafire account. I'll probably eventually load it up to L6's website once I flesh it out some. Its literally still just amps and a footswitchable noisegate up front (haven't even messed with the levels yet ). I also have the two amp models assigned to footswitches 2 & 3, which I used to even out the amp volume levels so they'd blend better and be the same relative volume.

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Unread 10-05-2011, 07:19 PM   #998
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Thanks for uploading the patch man
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Unread 10-05-2011, 07:26 PM   #999
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Thanks for uploading the patch man
No problem, I'm interested to hear it used by someone that can actually play metal with a proper guitar. I mean, it sounds good to my ears (actually better run through the Flextone III's effects return) but I can't really play anything that will test the effect properly

Currently in progress of replacing every guitar I have...piece by piece

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Unread 10-05-2011, 07:45 PM   #1000
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Hmm, yeah someone that plays "proper" metal needs to play it....i dont feel like i can pull it off either. The way you play sounds similar to how i play I can chug...
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