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Unread 10-12-2010, 10:17 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by Andromalia View Post
So I understand people wanting to be reassured they are not making the "wrong" choice, they just can't afford to make a mistake or will get stuck with the "wrong" piece of equipment.
With today's big store return policies I don't think most have to worry about getting stuck. I've returned shit to GC many times when it didn't work out. MusiciansFriend offers like 45 days or so return policy. That's plenty of time to give a unit a good test and return it if one isn't satisfied. I too have been thinking of picking up an HD500 even though I am in LOVE with my GT-10 now (but I don't use the preamp lol). I would only be getting it for direct recording - upstairs family members sometimes work insanely early morning hours (like 3am!) so it's becoming an issue for me.

If I find it doesn't do any better than something like Guitar Rig (which I own but only use for cab sim) I'm just gonna return it. So far though it does sound like an improvement, but I can't know till I really buy it and try it.


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Unread 10-12-2010, 12:23 PM   #227
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There is no way in hell an AxeFX cost 1500 dollars to make.

First rule of business, charge twice what it costs. By this terribly oversimplified rule of thumb, an Axe would require at most 700 dollars to construct.

LOL. I WISH! More like 25% for high value items like this.
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Unread 10-12-2010, 01:49 PM   #228
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I still don't get why everyone is dead set on comparing stuff like the POD HDs and GSP1101s to the AxeFx. They're completely different products in different leagues, with different goals in mind.
as much as I agree with you, is the average guitarist who has money to burn going to know or care? and while this might be a slight against guitarists ... I highly doubt any of them know the differences between these two, and wouldn't go to the length needed to figure out how they're different. they're going to hear two nearly identical items and buy the cheaper one. especially since the cheaper one is in possesion of a name that has more familiarity: the line6

while I know the axe is the superior unit by far, I also agree that this new POD will do quite a bit of damage to axe fx in the long term. it sounds similar enough to get the job done and is a lot cheaper. combine that with the fact that it's relatively easy to get one with the hunting out you have to do for the axe and the disparities aren't encouraging.

although I don't think axe is in danger of going belly up anytime soon, AFAIK there's still that nasty bit about having to wait a couple of weeks to have one built for you before it's shipped. I do think they've been given notice and are now competing in the market by someone else's game that is the worst match for their business though.

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Unread 10-12-2010, 04:41 PM   #229
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I'd be curious to know actually how many axe-fx sold. I'd be surprised it it was actually over 5K.

I don't think the new pods are any danger for fractal: there were pods before. They're getting better all right so the guy with 500$ gets better stuff. I'm not sure someone looking to invest 2K won't do some serious homework before buying.
also keep in mind that firmware upgrades can have a very big impact on the axe. I've owned mine for something like..er...3 months now, and oldtimers say it's way better now than when released. The Axe is an upgradeable software platform, which the Line 6 aren't really. Once Line 6 releases a model, it stays that way forever. (Well, it has so far with previous products) The L6 packs are new amps, new effects, but never "hello we have redone amp X" pr "Hello we have tweaked the cab sims".

The Fractal updates were actually a big factor in my choice of what to buy.
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Unread 10-12-2010, 05:04 PM   #230
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Couple observations. To me this new Pod sounds alright. Not the greatest thing since sliced bread, but not nails on chalkboard bad either. At least to me.

Another thing, at one end of the spectrum are the cork sniffing zombies that think the AxeFX is the second coming of christ. In a box. That is, nothing will *ever* come close to it. These are the same snotty yacht driving shitbags that spend $400 on *directional* audio cables with 99.999999999999 percent oxygen free copper to make their Steely Dan records sound more lifelike and three dimensional.

On the other end of the spectrum are the bargain basement hunters that are convinced that the next $300 Pod/amp-fx-combo/VST/freeware download, etc will surely shit all over the AxeFX's sound AND they'll get to flip off the cork sniffing crowd with pride, knowing they got all the sounds of the AxeFX for a fraction (pun?) of the price. These are the people that take great pride wringing every last bit of *it* factor out of bargain gear.

To Max's point, people will most certainly continue to compare the AxeFX with damned near everything out there. From modelers to tube amps. Simply for the sake of it. If Fractal released their entire amp sim lineup in number form (model 1, model 2, model 3, etc) instead of pseudo-cheeky references to real world amps, people would *still* compare them to stuff. So to that end, I don't think it's going to stop any time soon.

My view of the comparisons is, yeah they're a bit silly, because I agree totally with the car analogy brought up previously. But people will do it regardless.

What *should* matter, are my ears, eyes and wallet. And everyone else's should matter to *them*. So at the end of the day, if one guy, or a bunch of them, are happy with the Pod HD, then cool. Hell, I own an AxeFX and I might get one, just for ease of jamming or to screw around with... Point being, there's plenty enough room in the market for all these different companies to exist and I don't think this newest Pod is going to stomp into Fractal's territory, any more than I think Fractal is suddenly going to start stomping into Line6's territory. They're both a means to an end boys...
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Unread 10-12-2010, 05:18 PM   #231
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^ I kinda find it humorously ironic how some axe owners are getting so defensive about it, how anything they hear with the Pod HD is OBVIOUSLY inferior in every day, how it'll never touch the real thing, when it was them who were on the receiving end of the spectrum back when it was all about Axe FX vs Tube amps.
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Unread 10-12-2010, 06:46 PM   #232
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^ I kinda find it humorously ironic how some axe owners are getting so defensive about it, how anything they hear with the Pod HD is OBVIOUSLY inferior in every day, how it'll never touch the real thing, when it was them who were on the receiving end of the spectrum back when it was all about Axe FX vs Tube amps.
I don't know if you're speaking about me getting defensive about it or others. But for me, you might have misread my post, or maybe I didn't convey my sentiments properly.

My thoughts are thus, at some point, statistically, *something* will come out that surpasses the AxeFX. Whether it's from Fractal or not, makes no difference to me. But on a long enough timeline, some company somewhere is bound to come up with something that competes with it head to head, apples to apples.

At the moment though, to *most* folks that have tried one, the AxeFX packs the most value. The sound quality is there, the flexibility is there, the effects are there, etc. I think the Pod HD sounds alright in the clips posted here. Hell it probably sounds even better in person, and better still after some time when people have had a chance to really dig into it. On the Fractal boards Ola himself (the one who created the video) said that he's still getting the sound nailed down on the HD, and that in time, he can improve it. And note too, that he also said that he dialed the AxeFX back to a more stock preset type, in order to make a more fairer comparison.

Personally I like what the Axe does for me, and what it allows. The HD has its own segment of the market to please and that in no way makes it lower, or inferior by nature. It's just different. And I'm happy that there's more options (not less) out there for guitarists. If someone comes up with some HD presets that shit all over the axe, then great, and if this thing comes to surpass the AxeFX, or anything for that matter does, at a lower price point, then great.
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Unread 10-12-2010, 07:01 PM   #233
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Sorry I should've mentioned my comment wasn't directed at anyone on this particular forum. It's just something I see on youtube comments and somewhere else.
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Unread 10-12-2010, 07:07 PM   #234
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Sorry I should've mentioned my comment wasn't directed at anyone on this particular forum. It's just something I see on youtube comments and FAS forums.
Yeah there's some helpful people on the FAS forums, but they're largely overshadowed by the cork sniffing crowd that I can't stand...
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Unread 10-12-2010, 07:11 PM   #235
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Regarding inter-forum squabbling...

No harm, no foul but let's keep the jabs to minimum, pl0x.

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Unread 10-12-2010, 07:12 PM   #236
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Never mind ^ thanks for the supermod headsup.
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Unread 10-12-2010, 07:13 PM   #237
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Regarding inter-forum squabbling...

No harm, no foul but let's keep the jabs to minimum, pl0x.
No problemo Didn't mean to contribute that in a cross-forum bickering kind of way
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Unread 10-12-2010, 07:16 PM   #238
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Sorry I should've mentioned my comment wasn't directed at anyone on this particular forum. It's just something I see on youtube comments and FAS forums.
Heh, YouTube comments are something I stopped reading a looong time ago. They are no different than the comments on Yahoo news articles, a bunch of ignorant morons that have me questioning humanity on a daily basis LOL.

Not a dig at you at all! Just saying ignore anything and everything you read in the comments there. I've read some head spinning shit haha.


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Unread 10-12-2010, 08:15 PM   #239
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Just to pull a few points out of the whole conversation. I apologize if anyone believes I've quoted something out of context...

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I still think your wrong with regards to "They're completely different products in different leagues, with different goals in mind. "

They have the EXACT same goals in mind. They're both amp/effect modelers. They are both designed to do the exact same thing.
No. They most definitely do NOT have the *exact* same goals. One is designed to be an amp/effect modeler with a price of $2k. The other is designed to be an amp/effect modeler with a price of $500. You may view an intended price proportion of 4:1 as the exact same thing as 1:1, but you would be greatly mistaken.

4 to 1.

1 to 1.

I truly doubt you really believe those to be the same thing, but I'd be interested in seeing any ads you've placed where you ask for a quarter of the normal market cost for something.

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They target different market segments to similar ends. Performance-per-dollar, the Pod HD wins. For overall performance, tweakability, routability, etc, the Axe-Fx pretty clearly wins. They are DEFINITELY comparable because they are both modelers/effect boxes... it's just that for obvious reasons the one falls tonally short of the other.

I like the tones I get from my Axe-Fx better than ANYTHING I've heard from the Pod HD thus far, but if I didn't have $2000 lying around when I bought my Axe-Fx I might have spend half that to get the Pod HD.
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At the moment though, to *most* folks that have tried one, the AxeFX packs the most value. The sound quality is there, the flexibility is there, the effects are there, etc. I think the Pod HD sounds alright in the clips posted here.

...Personally I like what the Axe does for me, and what it allows. The HD has its own segment of the market to please and that in no way makes it lower, or inferior by nature. It's just different. And I'm happy that there's more options (not less) out there for guitarists.
I'm curious about how people judge what would pack the *most* value. If one piece gets you 80% there, but getting 90% there costs four times the price... is spending $1500 for that additional 10% considered the *most value*? Or, does something which is almost as good at a quarter of the price pack the most value?

Hmm...


$500 at 80% of perfection would be $62.50 per each 10% of perfection.

$2000 at 90% of perfection would be $222 per each 10% of perfection, almost four times as much for each 10% of perfection.

----

The fact that no one has yet said "the POD HD completely sucks!" is fairly amazing, and here's why: it means that, at only a quarter of the price, there's even the possibility of a comparison with a far pricier product.

Isn't that strange?

If you don't care enough to research your own question, why should anyone else care more?

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Unread 10-12-2010, 09:10 PM   #240
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$500 at 80% of perfection would be $62.50 per each 10% of perfection.

$2000 at 90% of perfection would be $222 per each 10% of perfection, almost four times as much for each 10% of perfection.

----

The fact that no one has yet said "the POD HD completely sucks!" is fairly amazing, and here's why: it means that, at only a quarter of the price, there's even the possibility of a comparison with a far pricier product.

Isn't that strange?
The beginning of your post and the end of it are completely contradictory to one another, unless I'm misunderstanding you.

In the beginning you disagree with Pewtershmit that they do not have the exact same goals. Then in your post you do not make any effort to outline how they are indeed completely different units working with different goals in mind. Instead you say they are both amp/effect modelers, which they are and would be relevant to having the same goals as they both model amps and both have a slew of common effects. Your only variance is the price tag, that doesn't delineate different goals at all.

At the end you seem to support the Pod with your price to performance ratio and the fact that no one has yet said the Pod HD sucks. You have me utterly confused


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Unread 10-12-2010, 09:30 PM   #241
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I'd be curious to know actually how many axe-fx sold. I'd be surprised it it was actually over 5K.

I don't think the new pods are any danger for fractal: there were pods before. They're getting better all right so the guy with 500$ gets better stuff. I'm not sure someone looking to invest 2K won't do some serious homework before buying.
also keep in mind that firmware upgrades can have a very big impact on the axe. I've owned mine for something like..er...3 months now, and oldtimers say it's way better now than when released. The Axe is an upgradeable software platform, which the Line 6 aren't really. Once Line 6 releases a model, it stays that way forever. (Well, it has so far with previous products) The L6 packs are new amps, new effects, but never "hello we have redone amp X" pr "Hello we have tweaked the cab sims".

The Fractal updates were actually a big factor in my choice of what to buy.
Actually, from everything I've read, the POD HD is, in fact, an updgradable platform as well. The first firmware update was released a few days ago, and it indeed includes updated amp models. So the fact that the Axe has firmware updates means absolutely nothing. They're both going to get better over time.
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Unread 10-12-2010, 09:32 PM   #242
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Explorer, it's really going to depend on the individual. I could say it gets me 100% of the way *there*. "There" being, where I'm happiest with the sounds I'm getting. I wouldn't call it "perfection" because that seems like an objective term and we're talking about our own preferences which are very much subjective. What I consider perfect, you may not, and so on.

So 80% of perfect is arbitrary. As is 80% of good, 80% of *there* or 80% of just about anything. I think the point you're trying to make is that if it gets a decent sound, and does it at $500, does that make it a *better* overall value than the AxeFX. My answer would be, if you, or others think it does, than it does. It's all up to the individual.

However, spec-wise, in terms of flexibility and number of effects, and combination of effects that it can process simultaneously, etc, I think the AxeFX is probably going to remain (on paper and in practice) a more powerful unit. Again, not saying that makes it better, or the HD worse, just that they are definitely different methods for accomplishing a similar goal.
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Unread 10-12-2010, 09:37 PM   #243
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Quote:
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Actually, from everything I've read, the POD HD is, in fact, an updgradable platform as well. The first firmware update was released a few days ago, and it indeed includes updated amp models. So the fact that the Axe has firmware updates means absolutely nothing. They're both going to get better over time.
I think this is one area where one must look at product or brand history. Is Line6 really that good about delivering new firmware updates that add value to their units? If so, great. I don't think anyone in their right mind would argue that Fractal has been extremely generous with their firmware updates. Updates I might add, that don't *just* fix things that were broken or overlooked. Updates that from the start, have added a number of amps and effects, thus making the unit even better (for the AxeFX owners) over time.

EDIT: I hope Line6 follows suit and with the new update you mention, continues to add to the products in the future. I don't share your optimistic view though. It seems to me that Line6 is more about hardware revisions and new releases than they are about committing to a specific piece of hardware for years on end, but if I'm wrong on that, and I might be, then all the better for everyone.
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Unread 10-12-2010, 09:42 PM   #244
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Is the lounge so empty that Explorer and Orb are battling in G&E? What has this world come to?

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Unread 10-12-2010, 10:08 PM   #245
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Is the lounge so empty that Explorer and Orb are battling in G&E? What has this world come to?
LOL
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Unread 10-12-2010, 10:14 PM   #246
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Alright folks, the grandstanding needs to end NOW. The thread is a relevant debate so rather than threaten to lock it, everyone who starts shit is getting banned for a month.

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Unread 10-12-2010, 10:37 PM   #247
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Heh, I was expecting the Line 6 to get it's ass kicked, but I was pretty surprised.

The Recto was done better by the Line 6 IMO, the Axe sounded hissy as all .....

The Uberschall model was the tits, both sounded great but the Axe was slightly better. Do Uberschalls actually sound like that?

Fireball sucked testicles, as did the Powerball. Not a fan of that sort of tone.

I liked the POD HD Recto and the Axe FX Uberschall the most.

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Unread 10-12-2010, 10:42 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by orb451 View Post
EDIT: I hope Line6 follows suit and with the new update you mention, continues to add to the products in the future. I don't share your optimistic view though. It seems to me that Line6 is more about hardware revisions and new releases than they are about committing to a specific piece of hardware for years on end, but if I'm wrong on that, and I might be, then all the better for everyone.
Actually, I was reading today on another forum I get on, that Line 6 will be adding more amp models to the Pod HD series, in the future. (Some free, some in purchasable expansions.)

He heard it from a Line 6 rep at the LA Amp Show.

That might be really cool, especially for someone like me. I'm still an guitar ->Tube amp->Cabinet kind of guy for my live rig, but for recording, I do all kinds of things, and I just don't want to spend $2,000 for something I'm only really going to use to record, and something I will probably never use the full potential of anyway.

$800-$1,000 is definitely more up my alley for me to not use something to it's full potential.
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Unread 10-13-2010, 12:54 AM   #249
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Originally Posted by orb451 View Post
Couple observations. To me this new Pod sounds alright. Not the greatest thing since sliced bread, but not nails on chalkboard bad either. At least to me.

Another thing, at one end of the spectrum are the cork sniffing zombies that think the AxeFX is the second coming of christ. In a box. That is, nothing will *ever* come close to it. These are the same snotty yacht driving shitbags that spend $400 on *directional* audio cables with 99.999999999999 percent oxygen free copper to make their Steely Dan records sound more lifelike and three dimensional.

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Unread 10-13-2010, 01:17 AM   #250
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there's no contest here, this is straight up the same concept but just different makes here, yes one has more options than the other, but of course they will sound different these are two completely different brands here

one caters to the low end buyers that want something decent

and then there's the axe with it's more options for more money

i don't see the axe fx beating the HD or the HD beating the axe fx, i wouldn't bother a comparison of presets, makes no sense. and i'm gunna be honest that new fireball 100 preset sounding like it could get pretty ....ing sick

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