homepage   sevenstring guitars   sevenstring registry   photo gallery   subscription   spy 
Sevenstring.org - The Seven String Guitar Authority
Go Back   SevenString.org > Music Discussion > Gear & Equipment
LIKE SS.org on Facebook FOLLOW SS.org on Twitter
  
Gear & Equipment Discussions on Racks, Amps, Cabinets, Tube vs. Solid State debates, effects processors, etc.

Reply
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 06-11-2010, 05:14 PM   #1
Fapping to J-rock
 
Murmel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hotgirl-City, Sweden
Posts: 3,754
Thanked: 38
Murmel is a splendid one to beholdMurmel is a splendid one to beholdMurmel is a splendid one to beholdMurmel is a splendid one to beholdMurmel is a splendid one to behold
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Finish affects guitar tone?

So I've seen posts here like; "Damn that glossy finish it doesn't make the guitar sing as it should.."

There seems that people like the satin finish better. Is there are reason other than the astetics? (spelling) I know that gloss finish can often be very thick on cheaper guitars and I can see how that can make the wood resonate worse or something along those lines. And that it can, if done badly make the guitar look like plastic.

I know that on acoustic guitars, the finish has a huge part in the guitar sound, but those are a whole different story.
Murmel is online now   Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Seven String

Beitrag Sponsored Links

__________________
This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members.
Register your free account today and become a member on SevenString.org
   
Unread 06-11-2010, 05:36 PM   #2
SS.org Regular
 
Deadseen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 207
Thanked: 2
Deadseen has a spectacular aura about
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I don't think you're going to notice much difference in a live situation.
Deadseen is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-11-2010, 05:38 PM   #3
Fapping to J-rock
 
Murmel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hotgirl-City, Sweden
Posts: 3,754
Thanked: 38
Murmel is a splendid one to beholdMurmel is a splendid one to beholdMurmel is a splendid one to beholdMurmel is a splendid one to beholdMurmel is a splendid one to behold
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadseen View Post
I don't think you're going to notice much difference in a live situation.
Well, I mainly want to know for recording etc not just live because I'm not in a band
Murmel is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-11-2010, 06:26 PM   #4
Mop
SS.org Regular
 
Mop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Auckland NZ
Posts: 182
Thanked: 3
Mop is a jewel in the rough
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Yes finish affects the tone, whether it's "better" or "worse" is open to interpretation. I went for a nice thin open grained satin laquer on my new guitar because I think thinner is better and because it was cheaper, win/win for me.
Mop is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-11-2010, 06:28 PM   #5
Bored 13 year old
 
Banana Wedgie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Ferring, West Sussex
Posts: 233
Thanked: 3
Banana Wedgie has a spectacular aura about
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Unanped, the JH200 in black and digital camo...

The digital camo one has a really thick finish. It sounds dampened, more absorbing the sound. Which is why I went with it. Because it looks great!
Banana Wedgie is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-11-2010, 07:27 PM   #6
Banned
 
Dehumanize's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 269
Thanked: 2
Dehumanize is headed in the right direction.
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
I wouldn't know if it sounds better, but I always want thin, transparent finishes because I want to see the woods of the guitar.
Dehumanize is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-11-2010, 08:00 PM   #7
Captain tying knots
 
Andii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: SC
Posts: 1,449
Thanked: 36
Andii is a glorious beacon of lightAndii is a glorious beacon of lightAndii is a glorious beacon of light
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I think the finish affects the tone more than the wood type, even above bridge type. People are always talking about tonal characteristics and I don't think most of it makes much difference, but finish is right after the pickups in the tonal difference made.

I sanded off one of my guitars and it made a world of difference that could be heard unplugged and through the amp. High or low gain the instrument opened up a lot.

Here is the strat I sanded down:
Andii is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-11-2010, 08:06 PM   #8
Mop
SS.org Regular
 
Mop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Auckland NZ
Posts: 182
Thanked: 3
Mop is a jewel in the rough
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andii View Post
I think the finish affects the tone more than the wood type, even above bridge type. People are always talking about tonal characteristics and I don't think most of it makes much difference, but finish is right after the pickups in the tonal difference made.

I sanded off one of my guitars and it made a world of difference that could be heard unplugged and through the amp. High or low gain the instrument opened up a lot.
Don't be silly, wood has way more tonal influence than the finish. Cheap strats do have a horrible thick plasticy finish though, good on you for taking it off
Mop is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-11-2010, 08:15 PM   #9
Captain tying knots
 
Andii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: SC
Posts: 1,449
Thanked: 36
Andii is a glorious beacon of lightAndii is a glorious beacon of lightAndii is a glorious beacon of light
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mop View Post
Don't be silly, wood has way more tonal influence than the finish. Cheap strats do have a horrible thick plasticy finish though, good on you for taking it off
If good wood is covered in a thick plastic feeling finish then it won't matter what it is made of in my experience. Alder basswood and mahogany all sound really close when they have enough clear coat to laminate the wall of china caked on them.

Also that strat is an American Standard series.
Andii is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-11-2010, 09:01 PM   #10
ss.org Regular
 
Werwolf999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 434
Thanked: 4
Werwolf999 is a jewel in the rough
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
There was a post made recently by a fellow who refinished a Schecter of his. He noticed that the tone did in fact change once he stripped it.
Werwolf999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-11-2010, 09:08 PM   #11
ss.org Regular
 
mark105's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Ballinger TX
Posts: 91
Thanked: 0
mark105 is on a distinguished road
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
It dosn't make alot of difference to my ears. This argument has gone on for ages: Nitro Laquer vs poly vs oil finish etc. I never could hear much difference , even less so with a lot of gain and/or active pick ups. But if you can hear it you should follow your own ears.
mark105 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-12-2010, 03:08 AM   #12
AU director / RHLC
 
cow 7 sig's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: WA Australia
Posts: 2,075
Thanked: 16
cow 7 sig is a glorious beacon of lightcow 7 sig is a glorious beacon of lightcow 7 sig is a glorious beacon of light
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
in my experience bare wood makes a world of difference to tone.it opens up the guitars tone alot more than a paint job.

do you have a fetish for reverse heads stocks?,do you find your self sweating or drooling over the site of a reverse head stock? if the answer is yes then i can help with therapy and rehab.join RHLC to feel normal again.....first consult free,normal rates apply after..LOL



Rock The Fuck Out
..DAN/CYBERSYN

NOS tube freak

MESA OWNERS CLUB MEMBER..R-014XXX
cow 7 sig is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-12-2010, 03:26 AM   #13
SSBRO.org regular
 
CYBERSYN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sunny Coast, Australia
Posts: 6,713
Thanked: 47
CYBERSYN is a splendid one to beholdCYBERSYN is a splendid one to beholdCYBERSYN is a splendid one to beholdCYBERSYN is a splendid one to beholdCYBERSYN is a splendid one to behold
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark105 View Post
It dosn't make alot of difference to my ears. This argument has gone on for ages: Nitro Laquer vs poly vs oil finish etc. I never could hear much difference , even less so with a lot of gain and/or active pick ups. But if you can hear it you should follow your own ears.
Totally agree.

Make a rule where, who ever messes up gets punched in the face.

That is how I run my solo project. - Floppystrings

O GREAT now your gonna tell me theres no Great Shred Doughnut,who delivers strings and picks to all the good shredders on yngwies birthday... - mr_rainmaker

Search this site by going to Google and adding site:sevenstring.org after your search word!
CYBERSYN is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-12-2010, 05:59 AM   #14
Mop
SS.org Regular
 
Mop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Auckland NZ
Posts: 182
Thanked: 3
Mop is a jewel in the rough
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andii View Post
If good wood is covered in a thick plastic feeling finish then it won't matter what it is made of in my experience. Alder basswood and mahogany all sound really close when they have enough clear coat to laminate the wall of china caked on them.

Also that strat is an American Standard series.
We will agree to disagree on this one Wood to me is if not the most important then one of the most important parts of how a guitar sounds. Finish is way down the list. Sure, ripping the paint of your gat makes a difference, but nowhere near as much change as bolting a decent mahogany body to that strat would.
Mop is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-13-2010, 05:19 PM   #15
SS.org Regular
 
shogunate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: denver, co
Posts: 635
Thanked: 0
shogunate is a jewel in the rough
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
We need some luthiers on this one...

I like natural wood finishes, oiled or satin for pure aesthetics, but I do personally feel that heavily painted guitars do sound... a little more compressed, choked, but only when in comparison with the same exact guitar unfinished. There are certainly heavily painted guitars that will sound miles ahead of other natural ones.

I also have read and heard multiple times that the neck joint is a critical point of sound transfer, so that's why some companies try to leave minimal finish at that point on the guitar, particularly neck throughs. Not sure how that would work with a bolt-on

Go to a local shop and just try out different styles, unplugged and amped, clean and under gain, come to your own conclusions and jump into the fray

Maybe it's a promotional gag, you stay the weekend, get a jar of blood
shogunate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-14-2010, 02:27 PM   #16
Making a meat suit
 
MetalGravy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Urbandale, IA
Posts: 1,045
Thanked: 9
MetalGravy is a jewel in the rough
Feedback Score: 9 reviews
Scientific Fact: Purple guitars sound better.


I know it sounds weird, but who am I to question science?
MetalGravy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-14-2010, 02:45 PM   #17
Iraq Lobster.
 
synrgy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 5,758
Thanked: 65
synrgy is pretty much the man.synrgy is pretty much the man.synrgy is pretty much the man.synrgy is pretty much the man.synrgy is pretty much the man.synrgy is pretty much the man.synrgy is pretty much the man.synrgy is pretty much the man.synrgy is pretty much the man.
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
My Dad (not a guitar guy, but has a PHD in musicology and definitely understands a lot more about EVERYTHING than I could ever hope to) has been making this argument to me for years.

I don't think it holds much weight. I understand the principle in terms of physics, but I have yet to hear an instance where the difference is truly noticeable.

It's virtually impossible to get a true test to prove this kind of theory, anyway, save doing legitimate before/after testing of THE SAME GUITAR with and without the finish. IE, not the same model, but the exact same individual instrument.

___________________________________________
The best thread I'll ever post
Guitar Tunes
Electronic Work

"And over here, our bass player, the Duke of Spook, the Doc of Shock, The Man with No Tan, please say hello to Death himself, the Grim Reaper!"
synrgy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-14-2010, 02:46 PM   #18
ss.org Regular
 
YellowMustard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Killadelphia, PA
Posts: 44
Thanked: 0
YellowMustard can only hope to improve
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Yes is most certainly does, in certain situations its alot more noticable.

Take a modern guitar, like an Ibanez RG with a thick ass poly paint job, strip off the paint down to bare wood, then try and tell me you dont notice a big difference in the tone acoustically. Paint, especially polyurethane based paints hinder the body woods ability to resonate as well as it could. Think about it, how can a body wood resonate as well as it should with it basically having a giant hard plastic covering over the entire body?

When were talking about a live situation, and when you have tons of gain thrown into your sound, you wont notice is much at all, but play that guitar unplugged or through a super clean channel of an amp like say a classic fender or a Roland Jazz Chorus and you'll notice a big difference.

I've been hot rodding guitars for years and have stripped many a guitar bodies, and every single time i notice a difference in the tone. The guitar usually ends up having a more "woody"/ warm/ open tone to it than it did beforehand.

The dude that builds Blackmachines knows what he's talking about. His theories are spot ....ing on.

If you ask me...Paint doesnt belong on guitars.
YellowMustard is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-14-2010, 02:59 PM   #19
Mid-Level Asshole
 
7 Strings of Hate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: St.Louis USA
Posts: 7,120
Thanked: 97
7 Strings of Hate is his own personal hero.7 Strings of Hate is his own personal hero.7 Strings of Hate is his own personal hero.7 Strings of Hate is his own personal hero.7 Strings of Hate is his own personal hero.7 Strings of Hate is his own personal hero.7 Strings of Hate is his own personal hero.7 Strings of Hate is his own personal hero.7 Strings of Hate is his own personal hero.7 Strings of Hate is his own personal hero.
Feedback Score: 29 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalGravy View Post
Scientific Fact: Purple guitars sound better.


I know it sounds weird, but who am I to question science?
Good point

Confront and Destroy!
7 Strings of Hate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-14-2010, 03:00 PM   #20
Iraq Lobster.
 
synrgy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 5,758
Thanked: 65
synrgy is pretty much the man.synrgy is pretty much the man.synrgy is pretty much the man.synrgy is pretty much the man.synrgy is pretty much the man.synrgy is pretty much the man.synrgy is pretty much the man.synrgy is pretty much the man.synrgy is pretty much the man.
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Okay, 'acoustically' is one thing, but when we're talking about ELECTRIC guitars, what difference does that make? When I buy an electric guitar and put whatever pickups in it to capture a specific sound, I couldn't possibly care less what it sounds like unplugged, because that's not how I use it.

What about *practical* difference? Seems the consensus here thus far is "When you're plugged in and using gain (translation: when you're playing your guitar the way you normally play it) it doesn't make a difference"?

___________________________________________
The best thread I'll ever post
Guitar Tunes
Electronic Work

"And over here, our bass player, the Duke of Spook, the Doc of Shock, The Man with No Tan, please say hello to Death himself, the Grim Reaper!"
synrgy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-14-2010, 03:25 PM   #21
9V inside
 
Key_Maker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Chile
Posts: 588
Thanked: 5
Key_Maker is a jewel in the rough
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
For me, the pickups are just the microphone for the singer, if you have a band singer, no mather if you use an neumann or a ribbon mic, the sound will lack of quality.

EARTHQUAKE!
Key_Maker is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-14-2010, 03:38 PM   #22
SS.org-er
 
caughtinamosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 3,767
Thanked: 55
caughtinamosh has much to be proud ofcaughtinamosh has much to be proud ofcaughtinamosh has much to be proud ofcaughtinamosh has much to be proud ofcaughtinamosh has much to be proud ofcaughtinamosh has much to be proud of
Feedback Score: 4 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalGravy View Post
Scientific Fact: Purple guitars sound better.


I know it sounds weird, but who am I to question science?


On a serious note, I know that Dan (member dpm) from Oni Guitars believes that the finish type has an effect on the instrument's tone. I'm inclined to take his word for it.
caughtinamosh is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-14-2010, 04:19 PM   #23
Caveman
 
Caveman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Payson, Utah United States
Posts: 238
Thanked: 5
Caveman is a jewel in the rough
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
i have two instances of paint choking guitars. once i got a spray painted charvel from a kid for free. it honestly sounded like somone slapped some pickups on a ply wood board. i sanded it down painted it black and white. kept the same bridge and pickups and electronics. now it sounds like a nice charvel with a slight usa fender touch. and another time my friend had a natural finish poplar gibson with a mahogany neck and had me paint it white to be more like metallica (i acutally charged him extra because i thought it was desicration of a beautiful guitar) and afterward the tone was duller and kinda had that chuck wood body sound. in my experience id have to say that painting a guitar tends to sorta focus the sound and dampen it. not always bad nessasarily. but you should never over paint a guitar.
Caveman is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-14-2010, 04:36 PM   #24
dpm
Oni Guitars
 
dpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 3,381
Thanked: 21
dpm is pretty much the man.dpm is pretty much the man.dpm is pretty much the man.dpm is pretty much the man.dpm is pretty much the man.dpm is pretty much the man.dpm is pretty much the man.dpm is pretty much the man.dpm is pretty much the man.
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
^

Yep, finish makes a difference, sometimes very noticeable depending on the thickness, mass, and stiffness of the finish and the resonant properties of the guitar itself. It's a dampening agent essentially, kind of like how bitumen spays and tapes are used on car panels to dampen road noise, though that's a more extreme example.

Anything that effects the acoustic properties of an electric guitar also effects how it sounds plugged in. What you're hearing in each case is the vibration of the strings. I tend to think of every part of a guitar as a kind of filter that attenuates various frequencies of the string's energy in greater or lesser degrees, ie. it gets dampened. When you strike a string the energy produced gets absorbed by everything it's connected to. The unabsorbed frequencies make the string vibrate in certain ways and that remaining vibration is what we hear acoustically and also what the pickups sense disturbing their magnetic field. The pickups themselves are also a filter, as is every component right through the the grille cloth and room properties.
dpm is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-14-2010, 04:40 PM   #25
Caveman
 
Caveman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Payson, Utah United States
Posts: 238
Thanked: 5
Caveman is a jewel in the rough
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
honestly i think the most underratted part of tone is your fretts. a guitars tone totally opens up when you give it a good fret job. so many people dont realise how much sustain and resonance they lose from shotty frets with too low of action. even if it doesnt make a definate buzz it can still tend to dampen the tone quite horrendousely
Caveman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:15 AM.


Our Network: PRS Guitar Forum | Luthier Forum | SG Guitar Forum | Les Paul Forum | Marshall Amp Forum | Acoustic Guitar Forum

SS.org proudly supports St. Jude Children's Research Hospital

Copyright © 2004-2014, SevenString.org. All Rights Reserved.