[Richardscuro]

Okay guys. I know a lot of you guys out there have purchased AXE-FX units in the last year or 2.

My situation is this. My current rig is a Mesa Triaxis into a 2:90 with a Rocktron Replifex and Eventide Pitchfactor for my effects into a Rectifier 4x12. I love the sound but here is the deal. My band does not rehearse amplified. We all run direct into a mixer and out to a head phone amp so I use a POD Xt Live for rehearsals with the Eventide. The problem is this. I am practicing with one rig and playing live with another and so the switching and sounds is completely different and I would love to have some consistency with both tone and switching.

If I decide to purchase an Axe-FX, I will have to sell the Triaxis (that is if I want to stay married) and I am assuming I will sell both the Eventide and Rocktron but I would love to have a great rig that I could both run direct for rehearsal and through a poweramp for live work without have to change hardly anything.

So what are your opinions about how it measures up for both direct recording and live with a poweramp and 4x12? Also how is the tracking for the intelligent pitchshifting is it similar in quality to Eventide's?

Thanks for your help.

Thanks in advance for your help guys.

[JJ Rodriguez]

The Axe sounds great for both. You MAY have to create separate patches though for direct/live use. At the very least you'll want to switch off cab emulation and maybe power amp emulation when you plug into your live setup. Some people like keeping power amp sims on even through a tube power amp, some don't. As for the intelligent pitch shifting, I hear both have the pro's/cons. There was a thread on the Fractal forums comparing the Eventide and the Axe for pitch shifting. I believe the tracking was a bit better on the Axe, and something else was better on the Eventide. Go to the forums and search up the thread on Eventide.

A lot of people have ditched their Eventide units for the Axe so I'm sure that says something. Also, the Axe being an all in one solution, selling off your other gear (pre-amp, effects, noise gate maybe?) will most likely pay for the Axe.

I can't personally compare the intelligent pitch shifter, because when I use harmonies I use perfect harmonies because I'm not that fancy and I don't give a shit what key I'm in

[technomancer]

Can't comment on the pitch shifting, but the Axe sounds fantastic overall. For what you're looking for you could buy a Carvin solid state poweramp, then you'd just need to throw the global setting that turns cab sims on/off between rehearsal and live use.

Most people that have tried both tube and solid state power amps with the Axe seem to end up going solid state. I can't comment on using it with a tube power amp as I haven't tried it, but it sounds amazing with a Carvin solid state amp and an Orange cab.

It also goes without saying that there will be a good deal of tweaking involved, but since you have a triaxis I assume you're prepared for that

[JJ Rodriguez]

Zepp prefers his through his 2/90/2, he tried the ss thing and didn't dig it. I have a new Carvin DCM ss power amp on the way though, going to compare it to my TS100 and see how I like it. The TS100 is pretty flat response anyways with a little tube warmth, so it might not be the best tube vs ss comparison to begin with....but for the weight and consistency it will give me, whatever

[technomancer]

Cool, I was just going mostly by what I saw on the Axe forums. I'll be curious to see what you thing

[JJ Rodriguez]

Yeah, most of the Axe users definitely prefer either the FRFR or solid state power amp route. Like has been stated in a couple of Axe threads, Cliff himself went from a 2/90/2 to a Carvin DCM power amp. I think I'll probably stick with the ss power amp once it gets here just for weight. 14 lbs vs 25 or so for the TS100. Even if the TS100 is a bit better, if the difference isn't that much, the decrease in weight alone will probably tip the scale in favour of ss.

[TMM]

Anyone tried one of the QSC PLX or PLX2 amps with an Axe-Fx? That would be an even greater weight reduction, and I know my old PLX1602 sounded great with a PODxt-Pro (cab sims off) through my 412s.

[JJ Rodriguez]

Originally Posted by TMM

Anyone tried one of the QSC PLX or PLX2 amps with an Axe-Fx? That would be an even greater weight reduction, and I know my old PLX1602 sounded great with a PODxt-Pro (cab sims off) through my 412s.

Those are heavier than the new Carvin DCM ones. The new Carvin DCM1540L I ordered is 1500W bridged into 8 ohm, and weighs 14 lbs. Even the 3500W ones weigh 14 lbs. I imagine they sound probably about the same, they're both supposed to be flat response. Someone also made the point to me in an MSN conversation (Tom I think) that you could also power a bass cab with one of these amps, and use the SVT model on the Axe, so you'd have a bass rig in addition to your guitar rig, all in one.

[Richardscuro]

Thanks for the help guys. It sounds like a great unit. I will have to do some thinking about this. My main concern is how long the Axe-FX will be supported and how long it will be until a new model is out and I have to dish out more for a new model.

[Mindcrime1204]

I think any software updates are free on the AxeFX.

[technomancer]

Originally Posted by Richardscuro

Thanks for the help guys. It sounds like a great unit. I will have to do some thinking about this. My main concern is how long the Axe-FX will be supported and how long it will be until a new model is out and I have to dish out more for a new model.

Models are updated all the time with new firmware releases, and firmware updates are free to download.

[JJ Rodriguez]

Originally Posted by technomancer

Cool, I was just going mostly by what I saw on the Axe forums. I'll be curious to see what you thing

Well, the verdict is in, I'm going ss. My patches took some tweaking, and I personally think they sound even better now, not to mention the weight difference. I also put it into a shallow rack, so I've lost about 4.5" off the back of my rack, so the weight is nice and evenly distributed, AND it weighs less. I don't know how it'll perform once I start jamming with people who use tubes. I mean, I have absolutely no concerns volume wise, the thing is loud as fuck, and 1500W I just don't know about it "cutting through" or whatever.

[TMM]

Originally Posted by JJ Rodriguez

Well, the verdict is in, I'm going ss. My patches took some tweaking, and I personally think they sound even better now, not to mention the weight difference. I also put it into a shallow rack, so I've lost about 4.5" off the back of my rack, so the weight is nice and evenly distributed, AND it weighs less. I don't know how it'll perform once I start jamming with people who use tubes. I mean, I have absolutely no concerns volume wise, the thing is loud as fuck, and 1500W I just don't know about it "cutting through" or whatever.

Wait, so the DCM fits in a shallow rack? That's the deal-maker for me right there. I loved my old PLX, but if the DCM is as light or lighter, 1500w, and fits in a shallow rack, that = win.

[JJ Rodriguez]

Yes it does. The Gator shallow rack is listed as 12" rail to rail, and the Carvin power amps (yes, even the TS100) is listed as 10" rack mount depth, which looking at it in my rack I'd believe. The Axe is listed as needing a 12" rack, but it's only slightly longer than the Carvin, so I don't know, they must have included the handles in their measurement or something It won't however fit into the SKB shallow molded racks. Well, the Axe will, but you need to put washers in between it and the front rails to push it out a bit more. You always want a little space anyways to be able to plug shit in and have cords and shit in there. The Gator shallow rack fits it like a condom though.

[zimbloth]

My Axe-FX experience has been great, but a bit different than some of you guys:

1) The Axe-FX sounds incredible direct, be it in the studio or direct to a PA system and a full range speaker.

2) In a traditional live environment, while it sounds good, it still does not compare to 'the real thing' in my experience. Certainly a top notch poweramp (be it tube or SS) helps, but it just doesn't sound as great with the cab simulation turned off IMO which is sort of what you need to do when running it into a guitar cabinet (or else it sounds murky). It lacks the complexity, warmth and presence to the tone that a legit tube amp has. I'd be concerned using one in a 2 guitar band if the other guy was using an all tube rig.

3) I strongly disagree about the Axe-FX's pitch shifting abilities. While just about all their fx sound incredible (breathtaking, really), I don't think its harmonizer compares to the Eventide Eclipse/PitchFactor or TC Electronic G-Force. Perhaps I need to upgrade my firmware, but I still find myself using the Eventide for harmonizing as I don't think the Axe-FX cuts it for that. It doesn't sound natural at all. A good harmonizer isn't supposed to sound like an effect, it's supposed to be organic. You know, sound like it's actually 2 guitars being harmonized.

All that said, I still wholeheartedly recommend the Axe-FX. It sounds amazing in the studio or direct to a PA system, and it certainly sounds great through other means. Just not great enough to want me to ditch my tube heads for live use. Believe me, I wish I did like it more. It would make things so much more convenient and cost-effective.

Many of my Fryette 2/50/2 and 2/90/2 customers love what it does to their Axe-Fx. I don't think the issue is tube vs solid-state poweramps, I think the speakers are more the problem. It just sounds odd through a guitar cabinet I think. Running it thru monitors, high-end PA speakers, etc and letting its speaker emulation do its thing is where the unit really shines IMO.

[starsnuffer]

I've a 2:90 that I run with my axe-FX and it sounds great. IMHO, the 2:90 is a great poweramp to run with it since it's a bit squishy and adds depth. The VHT stuff is probably better, but it's so dry that I think the modeler benefit from the slight slop of the mesa.

I think you'll be pleased with the pitch FX in the axe-FX. IMHO, it's better then eclipse, but not better then a H8000. I've no experience with the pitchfactor but I've a feeling it's closer to the eclipse then the H8000. It's very good in the axe-FX and it's gotten better with recent updates.

-W

[zimbloth]

Originally Posted by starsnuffer

I've a 2:90 that I run with my axe-FX and it sounds great. IMHO, the 2:90 is a great poweramp to run with it since it's a bit squishy and adds depth. The VHT stuff is probably better, but it's so dry that I think the modeler benefit from the slight slop of the mesa.

I think you'll be pleased with the pitch FX in the axe-FX. IMHO, it's better then eclipse, but not better then a H8000. I've no experience with the pitchfactor but I've a feeling it's closer to the eclipse then the H8000. It's very good in the axe-FX and it's gotten better with recent updates.

-W

I was thinking about getting something like this to run the Axe-FX through. Thoughts? It does sound great through the 2/90/2, but it seems a lot of people love it through powered monitors even more.

[vontetzianos]

^I was having similar ideas about running my soon-to-arrive axe fx through powered monitors. I have a set of very high quality powered speakers made by Boston Acoustics and I thought I'd try the axe fx through them when I get it, if it is in fact possible.

[starsnuffer]

My personal prefrence is for a tube poweramp and a real guitar cab. I've tried the power monitored route, and didn't dig it as much.

Powered monitors are best at trying to duplicate the tones you create in your bedroom or in your studio. I actually have two different sets of patches, one for the studio, and one for live, and the tones are different due to the poweramp coloration. I tend to prefer the coloration of the poweramp and what it does to the tone.

That said, plenty of people use powered monitors and like it just fine, so it's a good choice if it works for you.

-W

[zimbloth]

Originally Posted by starsnuffer

My personal prefrence is for a tube poweramp and a real guitar cab. I've tried the power monitored route, and didn't dig it as much.

Powered monitors are best at trying to duplicate the tones you create in your bedroom or in your studio. I actually have two different sets of patches, one for the studio, and one for live, and the tones are different due to the poweramp coloration. I tend to prefer the coloration of the poweramp and what it does to the tone.

That said, plenty of people use powered monitors and like it just fine, so it's a good choice if it works for you.

-W

Well after thorough experimentation with high-end 'full range speakers' compared to the 'real deal' (tube heads + good cabs) I've come to the same conclusion dude.

I liked the tone with the Axe-FX-->FR speaker, but it just couldn't hang with the Fryette amps/cabs we had in the same room. Volume wasn't the issue, the speaker I tried was 500w with excellent dispersion but it just didn't sound as thick, clear, or three dimensional as the analog setup. It sounded very good, processed in a good way. It would be an awesome tone to record or have shoot through a high-end PA system at a show if you wanted to travel light, but I thought it got its ass handed to it in a direct comparison.

I'll be sticking to my Pittbulls & FB412's, but I still love my Axe-FX for recording, fx processing, or a preamp feeding an elite poweramp/cabinet as many do.

[vontetzianos]

Having received my axe-fx a few days ago and having a lot of time to work with it and A/B it with my roadster, I have found that given enough time and enough experimentation, the unit in my opinion can sound as good if not better than a lot of the mesa's I've owned including the roadster.

There are differences in dynamics and I think the overall "punch" in the tone you can achieve from a tube amp, although I don't play live at the moment, thus the axe fx may prove itself to be a more convenient and more cost effective way of getting decent tone at just above bedroom volume.

I havn't had the opportunity to use mine with different power amps, so I cannot comment on what effect they have.

In all honesty, I am slightly more satisfied with the kind of distorted tones I can get out of the axe-fx compared to my roadster. I've had my roadster for about a year and a half, so its not like I havn't had time to get right into what this thing is capable of. I've used an infinite number of boosts, tried a number of different tube replacements, and even hooked it up to different cabs, but I still find the most desirable tone comes from cranking it, which is not an option.

I am in the process of borrowing a Hotplate just to try it out, but I find the axe fx can provide a consistent tube-like tone to suit my needs. If you play live, then perhaps a genuine head and cab may be a more suitable option, but like all high end gear: it depends on what you need it for. If you have not got the skills or equipment to mic up your amp to record, the axe fx is a perfect solution.

[zimbloth]

Alex that sounds about right. If I wasn't in a band and was just rocking at home, all I'd ever need is the Axe-FX thru my studio monitors. Sounds amazing. I'd probably sell that Roadster and put that money elsewhere. Then if you join a band someday you can invest in another tube amp.

[vontetzianos]

That's exactly what I'm contemplating. I'm thinking of putting the money from the roadster to a seperate power amp, most likely a fryette, and a guitar cab that is more neutral in terms of tone colouration. I've heard Vaders are pretty good in that department. I will however need at least a simple midi controller to get the most out of it.

I did in fact, hook my axe-fx to my powered boston acoustics, and while I thought the tone was good, I still prefer a guitar cab. Perhaps I'll check out some high quality PA speakers to see what those are like.

[Crucified]

in my opinion, it just needs more tweaking. the transformer frequencies in the deep editing make a very big difference. I have mine going through a very powerful mesa power amp, (strategy 400) and with the tweaking i've done and the power on hand, i think you'd have a problem telling me which amp is "the real thing".


that being said, i've approached making my patches not so much as "this is my mesa mark 4 patch, this is my diezel vh4 patch" as "this is my dirty patch" "this is my clean patch". I think that makes a big difference in using the axe. I mean, you can certainly try to emulate different amps but most of the time it's not going to work out the way you want it. If you're using it just for a good tone, you'll find it. Direct recorded or through a cab.

[mikernaut]

You guys got any tips for making good hi gain/heavy distortion patches? I just got my Axe Fx and am struggling so far. I've been trying to throw a drive infront and it starts to get nice and hotter sounding but then theres alot of hiss. Been spending all my time tweaking and not playing.

I suck at tweaking and theres soo many options that I can mess up. hah
It took me forever to dial in good patches with my Vetta II now I'm back at the start again with the Axe FX.