[The Atomic Ass]

I am now in the process of prototyping an amp.

But since I can't find the schematic of the Mesa Road King that I wanted to copy, I'm open to suggestions on what type of preamp I should build.


Previous threads on this subject: (for those who have no idea what I'm talking about )

Boutique amp market saturated?

A name for my amp company

[The Atomic Ass]

What, nobody has any suggestions?

[darren]

Most amp builders start with the basics, copying basic Fender and Marshall designs from decades ago, and then modifying them. You won't get very far with copying modern amps.

[Benraldo]

I'm starting the process of building my own dream amps.
My eventual goal is to build a clone of a Framus Cobra's third channel.


So there, do that.

[The Atomic Ass]

Originally Posted by darren

Most amp builders start with the basics, copying basic Fender and Marshall designs from decades ago, and then modifying them. You won't get very far with copying modern amps.

As my Ass doesn't like getting sued...

Obviously I didn't mean direct copies, but more like using an existing design as a baseline to then tweak out for that signature Ass® tone.

Naturally I'm going to be looking at classic Fender and Marshall designs for clean and lower gain tones, but I need a design to bring the brootalz.

Originally Posted by Benraldo

I'm starting the process of building my own dream amps.
My eventual goal is to build a clone of a Framus Cobra's third channel.


So there, do that.

PM me a schematic, pretty please?

[petereanima]

for high gain stuff - i would start with having a close look at the Soldano SLO schematics, because this is the milestone of "lead" tone. and also, from what i've heard, easy to mod to your belongings. the SLO schematics, if you dont have it yet, can be found easily. if not, i think i know someone who could help you *coughcough*...

and regarding the Cobra: from what i've heard, the ground-concept is also based on a SLO-copy. but most high gain amps nowadays are, i think. also, Framus links the schematics on their homepage:
http://www.framus.de/media/manuals/A...a/Cobra_V1.pdf
http://www.framus.de/media/manuals/A...a/Cobra_V2.pdf
http://www.framus.de/media/manuals/A...a/Cobra_V5.pdf
(3 different because on updates over the years)

all Framus schematics: Framus international


but when you are already having a look on the Cobra - me, and i'm not alone with that, fell sooo in love with the CRUNCH channel, but the gian cranked to max, so it was useable for high gain stuff. dont know how CH2 and CH3 are different, build wise, but maybe doing something in the middle, with less "juice" than Channel 3, but MOAR gain than CH2.... just an idea, nevermind.

[The Atomic Ass]

Originally Posted by petereanima

for high gain stuff - i would start with having a close look at the Soldano SLO schematics, because this is the milestone of "lead" tone. and also, from what i've heard, easy to mod to your belongings. the SLO schematics, if you dont have it yet, can be found easily. if not, i think i know someone who could help you *coughcough*...

and regarding the Cobra: from what i've heard, the ground-concept is also based on a SLO-copy. but most high gain amps nowadays are, i think. also, Framus links the schematics on their homepage:
http://www.framus.de/media/manuals/A...a/Cobra_V1.pdf
http://www.framus.de/media/manuals/A...a/Cobra_V2.pdf
http://www.framus.de/media/manuals/A...a/Cobra_V5.pdf
(3 different because on updates over the years)

all Framus schematics: Framus international


but when you are already having a look on the Cobra - me, and i'm not alone with that, fell sooo in love with the CRUNCH channel, but the gian cranked to max, so it was useable for high gain stuff. dont know how CH2 and CH3 are different, build wise, but maybe doing something in the middle, with less "juice" than Channel 3, but MOAR gain than CH2.... just an idea, nevermind.

I am going to make more than one amp, really. And multiple channels, of course. So the more designs to start with, the better. Once I get ahold of a breadboard, my first test will basically be copying the Valve Jr., and tweaking from that basepoint to eliminate some of the dull in it. Really, it's kinda woken up after changing out the power tube, (since the one in there was bad ), but it still can go further, I think.

Also, thanks to Blackheart, I've gotten the notion to testing a 12AX7 powerblock.

And since I'll just be doing whatever experiments I feel like, I'm also going to try out an EL84-based preamp. Just to see what it sounds like. If only the 12AX7 and EL84 had the same pinouts, I would have already tried this on my VJr.

And it's weird, but I've never heard a hi-gain clip of an SLO. Just the cleans and mid-gain, (EVH brown-type gain), but never any of what I would consider hi-gain.

[The Atomic Ass]

Ok, does anyone know of a good source for decent quantities of pre-drilled chassis?

I can do the small holes, but the tube socket holes are gonna be downright shitty, because they either require punching, or a drill press, neither of which I have.

Also, head cabinets?

I can find plenty of head cabinets and chassis on Google, but none both made by the same manufacturer, (not real important, but cheaper shipping), or the same size (that's REAL important).

[The Atomic Ass]

So, who wants to be an investor?

[action=The Atomic Ass]needs money to get started, but has no job, so has no money.[/action]

[Necky379]

try out High on Fire for high gain slo tones


btw like the framus amps, peavey 5150 preamp sections are also a tweaked version of the slo circuit just with more gain. im sure you've heard 5150's in high gain settings before.

[The Atomic Ass]

Originally Posted by Necky379

try out High on Fire for high gain slo tones


btw like the framus amps, peavey 5150 preamp sections are also a tweaked version of the slo circuit just with more gain. im sure you've heard 5150's in high gain settings before.

That sounded oddly generic to my ears. Maybe it was the guitar?

Also, that guys vocals suck hard.

As for the 5150, I'm aware of it's widespread use, but again, I couldn't point out any recording if my life depended on it. My knowledge of who uses what amps is astoundingly limited.

[Necky379]

there's so many players out there using 5150's you can check out: machinehead, in flames, bleeding through, older himsa, divine heresy. i don't wanna go crazy with the youtube links so just check those bands out on your own if you're interested in hearing the amp. there's also a shitload of 5150 demos on you tube, both high gain and mid gain.

personally i like matt pike's tone on that song, although i would never want it for myself, and his voice is perfectly fucked up to my ears

and he plays a 9 string guitar set up like a 12 string would be on the lower strings only, not exactly generic if you ask me

[The Atomic Ass]

Originally Posted by Necky379

there's so many players out there using 5150's you can check out: machinehead, in flames, bleeding through, older himsa, divine heresy. i don't wanna go crazy with the youtube links so just check those bands out on your own if you're interested in hearing the amp. there's also a shitload of 5150 demos on you tube, both high gain and mid gain.

personally i like matt pike's tone on that song, although i would never want it for myself, and his voice is perfectly fucked up to my ears

and he plays a 9 string guitar set up like a 12 string would be on the lower strings only, not exactly generic if you ask me

And of course, I've somehow managed to listen to not one single one of those bands you listed.

And I meant the pickups really, didn't notice the guitar was 9-strings. It's just the tone was overall dry and boring. I know, I'm weird. Solo was a lot better than the rhythm, though.

[DSilence]

Im pretty keen to see an amp in the works, get cracking! haha

[The Atomic Ass]

Originally Posted by DSilence

Im pretty keen to see an amp in the works, get cracking! haha

Need money first. I might have enough to cover the rent this month. Maybe enough to buy a breadboard next month.

[Variant]

Nah, don't make a stoner metal amp, I've got a bedspread and a bucket of water that they could soak it in before draping it over their speaker cabs to get that'll get that sound for a lot less money.

Make something with multiband tube preamp stages, like Source Audio's Multiwave distortion, so super-saturated, super detuned chords could stay in focus.

[The Atomic Ass]

Originally Posted by Variant

Make something with multiband tube preamp stages, like Source Audio's Multiwave distortion, so super-saturated, super detuned chords could stay in focus.

That is my intention. Stoner metal = fail.

Also, how do you guys like the blurb from my website?

Originally Posted by Elle Oh Elle Amplifiers

When it’s time to administer the Brootalz, you need to have the proper tools. Sure, you can stick a metal zone in front of an MG, but it’s not going to administer the Brootalz, it’s going to make fun of them. This is where Elle Oh Elle amplifiers can help. With enough gain to call forth Satan’s army, Elle Oh Elle amplifiers can enable you to definitively administer the Brootalz, leaving no soul un-reaped and no skull un-fucked.

[Distortion]

I'm really intrigued by this since I am myself looking forward to building my own tube amp sometime soon!!

Do you have experience with this kind of stuff? Maybe some books to recommend?
I'm currently reading one called "Beginner's Guide to Tube Audio Design" by Bruce Rozenblit. It's pretty thorough and an easy read if you've got some basic knowledge of electronics and all. I'm also checking out the AX84.com site -- lots of cool stuff and I'm thinking of getting a basic kit to get me started with this kind of stuff and then tinker around with it some more.

Going off and trying to replicate a modern amp from schematics seems a bit ambitious (to me anyway) for a first build.

[DSilence]

Yeah maybe theres a kit for a single tube design I dont kno alot myself but I think It would be an awesome project. Maybe I should look at getting a kit haha.

[The Atomic Ass]

Originally Posted by Distortion

Do you have experience with this kind of stuff? Maybe some books to recommend?
I'm currently reading one called "Beginner's Guide to Tube Audio Design" by Bruce Rozenblit. It's pretty thorough and an easy read if you've got some basic knowledge of electronics and all. I'm also checking out the AX84.com site -- lots of cool stuff and I'm thinking of getting a basic kit to get me started with this kind of stuff and then tinker around with it some more.

Going off and trying to replicate a modern amp from schematics seems a bit ambitious (to me anyway) for a first build.

I've soldered before. Really, aside from basic stuff, like what pin goes where, I've never been able to glean much from books. I'm more of a hands-on learner, really.

And it might seem ambitious if you never touched electronics before. It's just a lot of connections to make. If you can make one gain stage, you can make a dozen.

[Distortion]

Originally Posted by The Atomic Ass

I've soldered before. Really, aside from basic stuff, like what pin goes where, I've never been able to glean much from books. I'm more of a hands-on learner, really.

And it might seem ambitious if you never touched electronics before. It's just a lot of connections to make. If you can make one gain stage, you can make a dozen.

I see but I'm talking about designing an amp, not necessarily assembling one from schematics. I have a degree in computer engineering with a good bunch of electrical engineering classes and I have designed and assembled some pretty cool circuits and things like audio recorders/playback devices and even with that, I don't feel up to par to tackle designing an amp.

I might sound like an ass and all but if I were you, I would seriously consider getting a book on the basics of all this and how tube amps are designed and how they work internally especially if you're planning on modifying the design later on. It will be a lot easier to modify or adjust if you understanding the basics of what part does what. It might seem like a connect the dots job but I highly doubt it is.

If not out of curiosity, I'd read up about them for safety's sake.

[The Atomic Ass]

My plan is to start off by modifying existing designs... Not straight copying someone else's design. That's just asking for a law-suit. Breadboards FTW.

Tube amps are astoundingly simple in comparison to, well, any modern circuit. The Sony Walkman I took apart 15 years ago to tinker on had more shit in it than even the biggest baddest Mesa amp, component for component.

And really, from tinkering on my VJr, it seems very cookie cutter-ish. Input jack to gain stage A, A to B, B to power stage.

As for safety? Very simple. Left hand in pocket any time amp is plugged in, turned on, or has been prior to a cap discharge. Always double-check caps with VOM before working on amp. Not exactly rocket science.

[Crucified]

check out the bogner uberschall lead channel schematics. it's brutal and awesome. or see if the 5150 can be done but dial out all the garbage that comes with them. (which is what an uberschall sounds like to my ears)

[The Atomic Ass]

Originally Posted by Crucified

check out the bogner uberschall lead channel schematics. it's brutal and awesome. or see if the 5150 can be done but dial out all the garbage that comes with them. (which is what an uberschall sounds like to my ears)

My list of amps keeps getting bigger.

But my checkbook keeps getting thinner. And I haven't even started acquiring tools yet.

Now, here's something else I've just thought about. I want my amps to stand out visually. Orange amps are, well, orange of course. And they tend to stand out quite a bit from the sea of black tolex. Fenders clad in Tweed also stand out a little bit... What should I do to make my amps stand out? Perhaps neon pink tolex?

[Distortion]

Originally Posted by The Atomic Ass

My plan is to start off by modifying existing designs... Not straight copying someone else's design. That's just asking for a law-suit. Breadboards FTW.

Tube amps are astoundingly simple in comparison to, well, any modern circuit. The Sony Walkman I took apart 15 years ago to tinker on had more shit in it than even the biggest baddest Mesa amp, component for component.

And really, from tinkering on my VJr, it seems very cookie cutter-ish. Input jack to gain stage A, A to B, B to power stage.

As for safety? Very simple. Left hand in pocket any time amp is plugged in, turned on, or has been prior to a cap discharge. Always double-check caps with VOM before working on amp. Not exactly rocket science.

Yes, amps are simple circuits (component for component -- I actually find digital circuits alot easier to work with than any analogical circuit) compared to whatever hi-tech device commonly used today. But if you want to modify an existing design, don't you want to have an idea how each stage works ? or are you planning on using the trial and error method and keep whatever sounds better?

For example, how are you planning on modifying the amp's voicing and at the same time make sure the tubes stay in their functional range/limits? That's the stuff I'm talking about. You can't just remove or add capacitors and resistances anywhere and cross your fingers that it'll still work or at least work properly? Can you?

Different gain stages aren't necessarily isolated from one an other in an amp and changing something in one stage can actually affect (or render useless) the next one.

Sorry 'bout all these "skeptical" questions, I'm just really curious what your plan is since I'm also interested in doing something similar but I seem to be taking a completely different approach at it. There's no better or worse way though, whatever works for you is the best way for you