Combo amp wattage and speaker(s) question

Drache713 · 09-15-2007, 01:52 PM

I'm going to be purchasing a Tech21 Power Engine amp here soon finally, so that the tones I come up with on my GNX3000 for direct recording can be exactly the same as when I plug into an amp instead of having to re-tweak them. The Power Engine is basically a transparent combo with no tone coloring to it. They have three versions of it: a 1x12, a 2x12, and a 4x10. Thing is, all three versions are 60 watts. I need the amp so that I can use it for band practice, and for gigs when I get some lined up (unless I run directly to the PA, which is a high possibility). Now is there going to be any volume difference between the three versions, since they're all 60 watts? How is the tone going to differ between them, and why do they make these in three different configurations if they all have the same power? I need the loudest, cleanest of the three.

Drache713 · 09-16-2007, 06:02 PM

I've been looking into this...somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what seems to be the case: none of them are going to be louder than another because all of them see an 8 ohm load and all are powered by 60 watts, however the combos with more speakers pushing more air will have a bigger "presence" or sound to them. In addition, the larger speakers will be able to reproduce the lower frequencies better than the smaller speakers which reproduce higher frequencies better. Is this correct?

SHREDTOKILL · 09-17-2007, 12:18 AM

that sounds right, the lower end will sound a lot fuller with a larger diameter speaker.
the smaller speakers will sound muddier.
i would go with the 2x12 myself.
lets us know how it sounds.

darren · 09-17-2007, 12:29 AM

With the 2x12, you may get a slight volume bump because you do have more speaker surface area moving more air. Nice to see them expanding the Power Engine line.

If you're thinking of going with the 1x12, maybe also look at the Bass Power Engine. It has a closed-back cabinet, which might reproduce the lows a bit better.

Drache713 · 09-17-2007, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darren

With the 2x12, you may get a slight volume bump because you do have more speaker surface area moving more air. Nice to see them expanding the Power Engine line.

If you're thinking of going with the 1x12, maybe also look at the Bass Power Engine. It has a closed-back cabinet, which might reproduce the lows a bit better.

So it would seem that the 4x10 would push even more air and get a further slight volume bump, but sacrificing some of the lower frequencies, correct? I didnt even know they had power engines for bass, what configs do they come in?

Toshiro · 09-17-2007, 12:59 AM

How loud do you need it to be? Metal band practice? Originally these were designed as a powered extension cab for the Trademark 60, bumping the watts to 120. That setup is loud enough to clear a drummer, IMO, one might not be enough.

If possible I would get two of the 1-12 cabs and run the things in stereo.

Drache713 · 09-17-2007, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toshiro

How loud do you need it to be? Metal band practice? Originally these were designed as a powered extension cab for the Trademark 60, bumping the watts to 120. That setup is loud enough to clear a drummer, IMO, one might not be enough.

If possible I would get two of the 1-12 cabs and run the things in stereo.

Yeah that would be ideal, just the issue of money with me is ever present. Currently I run my GNX3000 into the effects loop return of my Marshall VS102R, which is 100 watts. That is plenty loud, just turn the knob up on the GNX to about halfway and it's enough to cause some ear damage.

loktide · 09-17-2007, 02:39 AM

dude, you might get disappointed... the power engines are supposed to sound transparent but i doubt that you'll get your same recording tones through one without re-tweaking all your patches. Alone the volume has a big effect on how you perceive tone (see Fletcher-Munson Effect). Moreover, when recording you're using tha cab-sim AND the mic sim on your GNX, i assume. I know lots of people are using cab sims (including me) with Line 6 setup through 'real' guitar cabs. It will affect the voicing of the amp!
I had the same thought as you a while back, and while it seems plausible on paper, you should REALLY go test this out before getting a power engine... You might be better off with a real guitar amp...

edit: as for speaker cone diameter:
if you're planing to play use your sevenstring or get thick palm-mutes, you should really get the 12" version. 10" or 8" will have less thump, handle low-end A LOT worse and will most likely fart out when turned up.

Toshiro · 09-17-2007, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loktide

dude, you might get disappointed... the power engines are supposed to sound transparent but i doubt that you'll get your same recording tones through one without re-tweaking all your patches. Alone the volume has a big effect on how you perceive tone (see Fletcher-Munson Effect). Moreover, when recording you're using tha cab-sim AND the mic sim on your GNX, i assume. I know lots of people are using cab sims (including me) with Line 6 setup through 'real' guitar cabs. It will affect the voicing of the amp!
I had the same thought as you a while back, and while it seems plausible on paper, you should REALLY go test this out before getting a power engine... You might be better off with a real guitar amp...

edit: as for speaker cone diameter:
if you're planing to play use your sevenstring or get thick palm-mutes, you should really get the 12" version. 10" or 8" will have less thump, handle low-end A LOT worse and will most likely fart out when turned up.

There's no selectable mic sim in the GNX. There is a speaker compensation effect, but that's more to kill fizz than anything.

The power engines have an active EQ on them, so you can fine tune without butchering your presets.

loktide · 09-17-2007, 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toshiro

There's no selectable mic sim in the GNX. There is a speaker compensation effect, but that's more to kill fizz than anything.

there's lots of mic sims on my podXT but none kills fizz

though the parametric EQ is helpful for that...

Toshiro · 09-17-2007, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loktide

there's lots of mic sims on my podXT but none kills fizz

though the parametric EQ is helpful for that...

I know, I've owned both units.(Sold the XT, just got the GNX)

09-15-2007, 01:52 PM	#1
Drache713 \m/ Mattman \m/ Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 1,392 Thanked: 13	Combo amp wattage and speaker(s) question I'm going to be purchasing a Tech21 Power Engine amp here soon finally, so that the tones I come up with on my GNX3000 for direct recording can be exactly the same as when I plug into an amp instead of having to re-tweak them. The Power Engine is basically a transparent combo with no tone coloring to it. They have three versions of it: a 1x12, a 2x12, and a 4x10. Thing is, all three versions are 60 watts. I need the amp so that I can use it for band practice, and for gigs when I get some lined up (unless I run directly to the PA, which is a high possibility). Now is there going to be any volume difference between the three versions, since they're all 60 watts? How is the tone going to differ between them, and why do they make these in three different configurations if they all have the same power? I need the loudest, cleanest of the three. __________________ Fuck it, you only live once! Personal Myspace page Band Myspace page

09-16-2007, 06:02 PM	#2
Drache713 \m/ Mattman \m/ Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 1,392 Thanked: 13	I've been looking into this...somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what seems to be the case: none of them are going to be louder than another because all of them see an 8 ohm load and all are powered by 60 watts, however the combos with more speakers pushing more air will have a bigger "presence" or sound to them. In addition, the larger speakers will be able to reproduce the lower frequencies better than the smaller speakers which reproduce higher frequencies better. Is this correct? __________________ Fuck it, you only live once! Personal Myspace page Band Myspace page

09-17-2007, 12:29 AM	#4
darren Decibel Guitars Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Greater Toronto Area, Canada Posts: 10,178 Thanked: 57	With the 2x12, you may get a slight volume bump because you do have more speaker surface area moving more air. Nice to see them expanding the Power Engine line. If you're thinking of going with the 1x12, maybe also look at the Bass Power Engine. It has a closed-back cabinet, which might reproduce the lows a bit better. __________________ http://decibelguitars.com http://twitter.com/decibelguitars

09-17-2007, 12:59 AM	#6
Toshiro Does not djent, ever Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Daytona Beach, FL Posts: 5,373 Thanked: 17	How loud do you need it to be? Metal band practice? Originally these were designed as a powered extension cab for the Trademark 60, bumping the watts to 120. That setup is loud enough to clear a drummer, IMO, one might not be enough. If possible I would get two of the 1-12 cabs and run the things in stereo. __________________ Um, Like Sound Files and Stuff ^_^ oh yeah, and some crappy videos too!

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09-17-2007, 12:18 AM	#3
SHREDTOKILL LOW AND SLOW Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,087 Thanked: 0	that sounds right, the lower end will sound a lot fuller with a larger diameter speaker. the smaller speakers will sound muddier. i would go with the 2x12 myself. lets us know how it sounds.

09-17-2007, 02:39 AM	#8
loktide Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 3,731 Thanked: 59	dude, you might get disappointed... the power engines are supposed to sound transparent but i doubt that you'll get your same recording tones through one without re-tweaking all your patches. Alone the volume has a big effect on how you perceive tone (see Fletcher-Munson Effect). Moreover, when recording you're using tha cab-sim AND the mic sim on your GNX, i assume. I know lots of people are using cab sims (including me) with Line 6 setup through 'real' guitar cabs. It will affect the voicing of the amp! I had the same thought as you a while back, and while it seems plausible on paper, you should REALLY go test this out before getting a power engine... You might be better off with a real guitar amp... edit: as for speaker cone diameter: if you're planing to play use your sevenstring or get thick palm-mutes, you should really get the 12" version. 10" or 8" will have less thump, handle low-end A LOT worse and will most likely fart out when turned up.

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Combo amp wattage and speaker(s) question