[Durero]

Does anyone here know if there is a hardware, or patent-ish equivalent of what the GPL does for free, open-source software?


I basically have a trem design that I believe is patentable, but I'd prefer to publish the design in a way that would allow anyone to manufacture and make improvements to the design, but prevent anyone from patenting it and restricting me, or anyone else, from manufacturing & continuing its development.


As far as I understand, if you show a design to anyone - especially in a public display, then the design is considered public domain and no-one can patent it. But in view of the crazy things that manage to get patented (like fanned-frets, which only have 400 or so years of prior art!) I'm looking for some legal mechanism that would ensure that I'm protected from someone else coming along later and patenting the same idea.

Any tips or suggestions would be much appreciated.

[Garry Goodman]

Originally Posted by Durero

Does anyone here know if there is a hardware, or patent-ish equivalent of what the GPL does for free, open-source software?


I basically have a trem design that I believe is patentable, but I'd prefer to publish the design in a way that would allow anyone to manufacture and make improvements to the design, but prevent anyone from patenting it and restricting me, or anyone else, from manufacturing & continuing its development.


As far as I understand, if you show a design to anyone - especially in a public display, then the design is considered public domain and no-one can patent it. But in view of the crazy things that manage to get patented (like fanned-frets, which only have 400 or so years of prior art!) I'm looking for some legal mechanism that would ensure that I'm protected from someone else coming along later and patenting the same idea.

Any tips or suggestions would be much appreciated.

Patents aren't always the best idea. There are two types. The design patent,IIRC, if you invented the idea. The problem is you have to include your design, which is made public, for all to view. I believe that even with a utility patent, the other kind, that because tremelos already exist, yours is not the first, your drawing and specs are made public. So someone can alter your design and make one and they are not infringing on your design.

You can read all types of guitar related patents, and they must show how it is done, so anyone could duplicate it. I heard the fanned fret patent expired.
You need to find an exceptional patent lawyer. You will probably spend no less than $10,000.
Build one and sell it,vthen no one can apply for the patent. That way you aren't revealing your blue prints. Did you know Coca-Cola's formula is not patented for the very same reason?

Say I invent a new kind of guitar string. The guitar string already exists and mine looks exactly like 100 others. I didn't invent wire and I explain my strings never go out of tune, that is what makes them different. I would have to show how and why so anyone could make such a string in my patent application. If I invent a new wire formula with new ingredients, I am better off NOT appying for a patent because I want to keep my formula a secret(Like Coca-Cola). That way, my would-be competitors will spend all eternity trying to backwards enginer my formula. With a patent, I would have to give up the formula in order to patent it.
I hope this helps

[Durero]

Thanks Garry, that's very informative and helpful

Yes I'm looking for a way of avoiding the patent process. I'd be perfectly happy if anyone else made copies or alterations to my design, I'm just wanting to make sure I can prevent someone else from restricting my right to build and sell it.

Sounds like just going ahead and building it is a good thing to do, I'm just wondering if there is some way to register the design in the public domain like software can be with the GNU license.


btw yes the patent for fanned-frets has expired, and that's very interesting about the formula for Coke - I can only imagine the kind of corporate espionage & security issues they must have

[knuckle_head]

Only suggestion I would make is be certain your idea is indeed unique - if someone has it protected already you open yourself up to way more than the $10K a patent attorney would cost.

If it is an unprotected idea, creating it, selling/sharing it (with proper documentation, i.e. getting the sales receipt notorized), and publishing its design very publicly is all you need to do.

[dpm]

I love your thinking Durero. Personally I believe IP has gotten absurd and limits innovation and improvement. You do need to be careful that you're not infringing on anyone else's IP....

[Cool711]

Thanks for the info Garry.
I'm not interested in patenting anything right now, but it was some valuable info there.

[Kevan]

Originally Posted by Garry Goodman

Say I invent a new kind of guitar string. The guitar string already exists and mine looks exactly like 100 others. I didn't invent wire and I explain my strings never go out of tune, that is what makes them different. I would have to show how and why so anyone could make such a string in my patent application. If I invent a new wire formula with new ingredients, I am better off NOT appying for a patent because I want to keep my formula a secret(Like Coca-Cola). That way, my would-be competitors will spend all eternity trying to backwards enginer my formula. With a patent, I would have to give up the formula in order to patent it.
I hope this helps

This isn't always the case. Rosco isn't required to release it's formula for the 'juice' it's fog machines use.


Also, patenting in Canada is different than patenting here in the U.S.

DPM brings up a good point: While your intentions are good, you could fuck yourself and bring a world of hurt (infringement suits) against you if your idea/product- patented or not- infringes on something that is already patented.

The key to something like this (after you're sure you're clear of any infringement problems) would be to flood the market with the product. By the time someone gets around to patenting it, it's fuckin' everywhere, and made by dozens of companies, and used by thousands of people. It won't be worth their time or effort to go through the patent process.

If you want to talk more about it, email me. I'll get ya what info I can.

Good luck!

[Durero]

Thanks for the advice KnuckleHead, Dan & Kevan - much appreciated.

I've been reading through every trem-related patent listing I can find in the U.S. and Canadian patent systems. The closest design I can find is the Steinberger Trans-Trem (which has now expired) and I believe my design would have enough changes & improvements to warrant a utility patent if I applied for one.

I'll be sure to go through the search the patent databases process again before I reach the point of offering anything for sale. I understand that I can get my ass sued if someone thinks I'm infringing on their patent.

thank goodness for Google Patents: Google Patents

A notarized sales receipt is an excellent idea - I'll definitely keep that one in mind.


thanks guys!

[Kevan]

GooglePatents is cool, but also plan on spending a few hours/days/weeks going through everything on the USPTO site.

Oh, and if it's even remotely related to the Steinberger stuff, expect a nasty-gram (warranted or not) from Gibson.

[ohio_eric]

Wasn't it Gibson that stopped Wilkinson from making that Convertable trem? I think it was. For those that don't know the Convertable trem was atremolo unit that would lock into position like a fixed bridge when the arm got to a certain point, I think you can get them in Europe. But Gibson had a patent on a screw or something that the trem used to buh bye Wilkinson.