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Unread 08-22-2013, 12:37 PM   #51
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This just reinforces the fact that past a certain price point, you're not paying for a significant increase in workmanship or quality. The M8M is expensive because it's made in very small numbers and has specs (like the very long scale and neck through) that are unorthodox for Ibanez.

Producing the identical guitar in the USA versus, say, Indonesia will produce a vastly different price tag simply because of the exchange rate (1000 Indo Rupiahs = 1 USD). Country of origin, production volume and of course a little name-dropping with sig models all go to affect the price of an instrument. Lots of guitarists seem to be under the impression that quality directly correlates with price, and that's simply not the case.
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Unread 08-22-2013, 04:35 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littledoc View Post
This just reinforces the fact that past a certain price point, you're not paying for a significant increase in workmanship or quality. The M8M is expensive because it's made in very small numbers and has specs (like the very long scale and neck through) that are unorthodox for Ibanez.

Producing the identical guitar in the USA versus, say, Indonesia will produce a vastly different price tag simply because of the exchange rate (1000 Indo Rupiahs = 1 USD). Country of origin, production volume and of course a little name-dropping with sig models all go to affect the price of an instrument. Lots of guitarists seem to be under the impression that quality directly correlates with price, and that's simply not the case.
I agree that past a certain price point there isn't a significant increase in quality but I think its unfair to apply that concept in this situation. None of us were there playing the guitars and playability/construction is usually were most of the money goes. Also, I think the M80 has the same scale length as the M8M.

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Unread 08-22-2013, 06:51 PM   #53
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This just reinforces the fact that past a certain price point, you're not paying for a significant increase in workmanship or quality.
Can't agree with this. The amplified sound may be similar, but there is so much more that goes into what constitutes a guitar that makes you go vs one that just makes you go "meh." Of course, I like a guitar to sound good, but more importantly, it has to FEEL good. I have tried neither guitar personally, but I would assume that if you put an M8M in my hands and an M80M in my hands there would be a very noticable difference. Whether that's worth an extra $3K+ though is another issue entirely haha
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Unread 08-23-2013, 03:41 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Given To Fly View Post
I agree that past a certain price point there isn't a significant increase in quality but I think its unfair to apply that concept in this situation. None of us were there playing the guitars and playability/construction is usually were most of the money goes. Also, I think the M80 has the same scale length as the M8M.
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Can't agree with this. The amplified sound may be similar, but there is so much more that goes into what constitutes a guitar that makes you go vs one that just makes you go "meh." Of course, I like a guitar to sound good, but more importantly, it has to FEEL good. I have tried neither guitar personally, but I would assume that if you put an M8M in my hands and an M80M in my hands there would be a very noticable difference. Whether that's worth an extra $3K+ though is another issue entirely haha

I agree with you fine gentleman to the extent that there may (MAY) be perceptible differences in playability or fit and finish between the models. Are such differences, assuming they're there, worth (like ddk said) that extra $3k?

The other issue is that most people have a hard time quantifying the differences between guitars. They'll ramble on about tonewoods or whatever, but I'm thinking, "Are the frets leveled and polished? Is the guitar set up properly? Is it free of functional and significant cosmetic defects?"

It's the case with anything. I build gaming PCs and it's the same way – beyond a certain price point, you pay exponentially more money for trivial or even imperceptible improvements in performance. Guitars are the same way. Assuming it's generally a well-made instrument, most of the cost of the really expensive stuff can be pinned on rarity/production volume and country of origin.

That's why the M80M will cost a lot less than the M8M. It uses a construction method Ibanez uses on lots of their guitars already (the bolt), with the same materials, in a factory in a country with a nearly worthless currency where many thousands will be produced (manufacturers do get volume discounts on materials, ya know). I'm sure overall QC will remain higher on the M8M given the lower yield, but that's a lot of money for a neck-through and a little more peace of mind. There will always be those who say you can't put a price on that stuff (people with lots of disposable income), but anyone investing in an M80M definitely shouldn't feel like they're missing out.
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Unread 08-23-2013, 11:11 PM   #55
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I agree with you fine gentleman to the extent that there may (MAY) be perceptible differences in playability or fit and finish between the models. Are such differences, assuming they're there, worth (like ddk said) that extra $3k?

The other issue is that most people have a hard time quantifying the differences between guitars. They'll ramble on about tonewoods or whatever, but I'm thinking, "Are the frets leveled and polished? Is the guitar set up properly? Is it free of functional and significant cosmetic defects?"

It's the case with anything. I build gaming PCs and it's the same way – beyond a certain price point, you pay exponentially more money for trivial or even imperceptible improvements in performance. Guitars are the same way. Assuming it's generally a well-made instrument, most of the cost of the really expensive stuff can be pinned on rarity/production volume and country of origin.

That's why the M80M will cost a lot less than the M8M. It uses a construction method Ibanez uses on lots of their guitars already (the bolt), with the same materials, in a factory in a country with a nearly worthless currency where many thousands will be produced (manufacturers do get volume discounts on materials, ya know). I'm sure overall QC will remain higher on the M8M given the lower yield, but that's a lot of money for a neck-through and a little more peace of mind. There will always be those who say you can't put a price on that stuff (people with lots of disposable income), but anyone investing in an M80M definitely shouldn't feel like they're missing out.
the m80m will be a great ALTERNATIVE to the M8M... but let's get this straight folks. The M80M is no M8M.
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Unread 08-27-2013, 10:41 AM   #56
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So how different does the 29.4" scale length feel compared to a 27" scale?

Does most of the difference come from the bridge being further back on the body or are the frets spaced?

Riffs I've had to stretch to reach on a 25.5" I would have to jump around on a 27"
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Unread 08-27-2013, 11:52 AM   #57
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So how different does the 29.4" scale length feel compared to a 27" scale?

Does most of the difference come from the bridge being further back on the body or are the frets spaced?

Riffs I've had to stretch to reach on a 25.5" I would have to jump around on a 27"
I think that scale length is close to micro basses? They're around 30" I think? It's that or I'm way ....ing off and someone will correct me
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Unread 08-27-2013, 12:02 PM   #58
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You got it.
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Short scale basses are generally defined as having scale lengths between 30″ and 32″. Long scale basses conventionally have a 34″ string length.
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Unread 08-27-2013, 12:33 PM   #59
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It's more of a "vintage Bass VI" type scale length. Fender's Bass VI guitars have been different scale lengths through the years though. My OLP MM5 is the same scale length also I think.

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Unread 08-27-2013, 12:50 PM   #60
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Just think of the guitar as a high end Ibanez Premium model. When it comes to prices the most I would ever reasonably spend on a guitar is about $3,000 or so. I would never actually buy the $6,000 M8M, because the specs are too specific to Meshuggah for me to spend that much money. However, $1,500 for a decent quality Ibanez with similar specs and a Lundgren is def worth it to get close enough for that tight 8 string tone.

To me it's the same deal as the Premium Universe they came out with. It's not gonna be the quality of the original, but it's still a good guitar.
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Unread 08-27-2013, 03:09 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MF_Kitten View Post
It's more of a "vintage Bass VI" type scale length. Fender's Bass VI guitars have been different scale lengths through the years though. My OLP MM5 is the same scale length also I think.
The US Bass VI has always been 30" as far as I'm aware of. The Japanese version did differ very slightly by 30.4" IIRC.
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Unread 08-27-2013, 03:56 PM   #62
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In other words: READ THE MANUAL!

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Unread 08-27-2013, 06:53 PM   #63
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The amp!!!!!
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Unread 08-28-2013, 06:40 PM   #64
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M8M=What Meshuggah could afford
M80M=What Meshuggah fans can afford

If I could throw 5 grand at a guitar and recover from it with no debts, it'd probably happen, because it's what everyone else does because these instruments OWN OUR SOULS. After all, it's what we pour into them ;D (sometimes blood too. Literally xD *looks at picture of Vai*)

I'm GASing to make an M80M my first 8... Nothing quite ticks all the current boxes like it does. GASSSS!!!!!

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Unread 08-28-2013, 06:54 PM   #65
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The m80m sounds great and is so beautiful, I still can't decide if I could live without a neck pickup (I mean I could be crazy and add one later.... lol) and with such a huge scale length though. I sure hope a local shop gets one so I can try it out.

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Unread 08-29-2013, 10:41 PM   #66
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Just add the neck pickup, if you will use it and keep the guitar. I think these will be love or hate guitars, the scale is huge, the tone is very restricted... but that's a good thing IMO. Adding a neck pickup if you're keeping the guitar isn't a silly decision - although you'd really want to be sure you loved the guitar because the resale will plummet HARD; I got lucky flipping an Epiphone V that I scalloped the neck through Ebay - I think a young Yngwie tragic picked it up LOL and that's the thing... even with a neck pickup it will be easy enough to sell but you can't get that body back if you change your mind.
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Unread 08-29-2013, 11:20 PM   #67
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Quote:
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The US Bass VI has always been 30" as far as I'm aware of. The Japanese version did differ very slightly by 30.4" IIRC.
Right you are, I was confusing different models. There was a model that had a 28" scale length too, though I forget which it was.

This is what I was really thinking about though:
Silhouette Bass

There was one more baritone that I had in mind, but I can't for the life of me remember which it was!

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Unread 08-31-2013, 02:37 PM   #68
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Fantastic thread...
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Unread 09-02-2013, 04:28 PM   #69
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I am saving up for the M80M now. Selling stuff I'd normally not sell. IT WILL BE MINE!

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Unread 09-02-2013, 10:21 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littledoc View Post
This just reinforces the fact that past a certain price point, you're not paying for a significant increase in workmanship or quality. The M8M is expensive because it's made in very small numbers and has specs (like the very long scale and neck through) that are unorthodox for Ibanez.

Producing the identical guitar in the USA versus, say, Indonesia will produce a vastly different price tag simply because of the exchange rate (1000 Indo Rupiahs = 1 USD). Country of origin, production volume and of course a little name-dropping with sig models all go to affect the price of an instrument. Lots of guitarists seem to be under the impression that quality directly correlates with price, and that's simply not the case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Given To Fly View Post
I agree that past a certain price point there isn't a significant increase in quality but I think its unfair to apply that concept in this situation. None of us were there playing the guitars and playability/construction is usually were most of the money goes. Also, I think the M80 has the same scale length as the M8M.
This. There's definitely a quality difference between the two, and I'd bet it's a noticeable one. I'm sure the M80M is a great guitar, but I'm also sure the M8M is better. As you go up in price/quality, the differences get *smaller*, but they're still definitely there. And when you're getting up into that calibre of guitar, those tiny differences can seem huge to you.

Think of the differences between a $100 Rondo SX Strat copy and a Fender MIA Standard Strat. Then think of the differences between an MIA Strat and a Suhr or Tom Anderson. The jump from the $100 guitar to the $1k guitar is more noticeable than the $1k to $3k+ jump, but that doesn't mean the Suhr is no better than the MIA Strat. It can be the difference between playing a great guitar, and a guitar that totally floors you.

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Unread 09-06-2013, 03:37 PM   #71
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edit: there we go... I think this might be the proto I have now too. Cool
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Unread 09-06-2013, 03:39 PM   #72
 
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Here's my bud Mårten with the new baby as well!

Marten Hagstrom on the Meshuggah M80M Ibanez 8-string signature model - YouTube

Cripes, how do you imbed this here..
It pisses me off too how sometimes they embed and sometimes they dont. Drives me absolutely nuts!
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Unread 09-06-2013, 03:41 PM   #73
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Awesome! I think it imbeds automatically if you just post the link without any thingamajings around it.


Edit: testing it

http://youtu.be/Ro5LQiLbFgU

Edit 2: damn it.. Well, I'm out of ideas haha!

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Unread 09-06-2013, 03:50 PM   #74
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Awesome! I think it imbeds automatically if you just post the link without any thingamajings around it.


Edit: testing it

Marten Hagstrom on the Meshuggah M80M Ibanez 8-string signature model - YouTube

Edit 2: damn it.. Well, I'm out of ideas haha!
Look up bud, got it now
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Unread 09-06-2013, 03:58 PM   #75
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Haha, cool!

I do hope they make a set of lefties of that some time down the road because, I WANT ONE!

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