The Rico returns... - Page 3

JaeSwift · 06-14-2012, 05:35 PM

Of all those things, IMO the binding job is the most ridiculous as that's in plain sight. If it was a bolt on it could have been fixed relatively easily but sadly it isn't. The BKP thing, while stupid, isn't that much of a bother. Not properly shieldng cavities sounds like pure slop/time cutting to me.

Larrikin666 · 06-14-2012, 05:40 PM

Holy shit. This is terrible. I know I'm one of the biggest Bernie fanatics around here, but that's not okay. Not even close. I don't envy being in your situation. The best thing I can recommend is talking to Bernie about it. Shoot me a PM if you want some help approaching him. He and I talk on the phone 3 or 4 times a week. I'd be happy to help facilitate the conversation with him if you want to go that route.

Phrygian · 06-14-2012, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaeSwift

The BKP thing, while stupid, isn't that much of a bother.

Try replacing it with a new pickup (same brand) that has its magnets so close to the edge that you can't shim it to fit the undersized cavity. Suddenly it's a mind.... of bother.

TRENCHLORD · 06-14-2012, 05:47 PM

Is it the photo angles, light reflection, or are some frets round crowned and some frets flat-top?
I like flats (as long as ALL fret tops are kept under 1mm), but having both rounds and flats on the same axe is a bit weird IMO.

glassmoon0fo · 06-14-2012, 06:01 PM

Holy hell, I can't believe something like that ever left the shop. The only thing I can think of, is that since this guitar was made a few years ago from one of his discount runs, maybe he was letting others handle the workload? Pure speculation on my part, but it makes no sense how so many of his instruments are so spectacular and then there's this. Good luck man.

infernalservice · 06-14-2012, 06:10 PM

I am glad someone finally posted irrefutable evidence of some of Bernie's shoddier work. I have owned two Rico's. One was a great playing and looking guitar. The other came to with scratched tuning machines, mismatched pickup rings, verticle notced gaps between the ebony board and maple neck, a terrible overspray paint job on the burst finish, some fake looking ping floyd rose, and was wired incorrectly to a Petrucci style mini-toggle. Call me crazy, but a luthier should be able to tell the difference between a full humbucker tone and a tapped one, right?

HighGain510 · 06-14-2012, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Of Angels

Well, I'm saying that most of the reviews I've read have been overwhelmingly positive. Bernie's guitars do not carry a bad reputation overall - its mostly positive.

What I've found interesting is there seems to be a VERY similar review group for both the BRJ and Strictly 7 crowd on this forum. They throw up GLOWING reviews, sell the guitar a few weeks/month(s) later and then suddenly all the issues they had with the instruments come to light.

So far the only person I've seen who had issues with his guitar that took care to bring them up before selling to an interested party has been Eric, huge props to him for being a standup gent. I've noticed a lot of guys having issues with guitars from those two luthiers have been dropping rave reviews and then can't seem to get rid of the guitars fast enough...

Just saying... it makes you think....

Stealthdjentstic · 06-14-2012, 06:17 PM

I noticed the same thing, as well as KxK.

axxessdenied · 06-14-2012, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elq

Indeed. I'll probably part it out this weekend. Oh goodie - a shaved BKP, 8 crappy grover tuners, and (the only great part) a hipshot bridge. I expect to be rolling in dough soon

LOL!! Thanks for posting the pics. That is just brutal... and he actually signed the back of the headstock there himself? WITH THAT GIANT HOLE STILL VISIBLE?!

infernalservice · 06-14-2012, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealthdjentstic

I noticed the same thing, as well as KxK.

I have owned a KXK and the build quality was way above my brj's. My only issue was that I bought too many guitars last year and had to unload the ones I wasn't playing. I sold the kxk to a member here, and he loves it.

Stealthdjentstic · 06-14-2012, 06:51 PM

Yeah, I'm just saying you do get quite a few up fs

glassmoon0fo · 06-14-2012, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HighGain510

What I've found interesting is there seems to be a VERY similar review group for both the BRJ and Strictly 7 crowd on this forum. They throw up GLOWING reviews, sell the guitar a few weeks/month(s) later and then suddenly all the issues they had with the instruments come to light.

So far the only person I've seen who had issues with his guitar that took care to bring them up before selling to an interested party has been Eric, huge props to him for being a standup gent. I've noticed a lot of guys having issues with guitars from those two luthiers have been dropping rave reviews and then can't seem to get rid of the guitars fast enough...

Just saying... it makes you think....

I think a lot of that has to do with the gearwhoring this forum facilitates, and the fact that people like to play up the gear they have vs. the gear they don't have. People love the guitars while they have them, then talk crap about them when they're done, kinda like an ex gf/bf

.

I know I've now sold both a Rico and a Stric7 (to the same guy, no less) and both were excellent guitars, I just wasn't able to justify keeping them with newer, undoubtedly more expensive gear coming in. THIS is a different situation alltogether. It's like two different people are doing inspection, one is lights-out immaculate, the other is high on chromosomes

. I've been very lucky to have 2 excellent examples of what Bernie can do, so I tend to aire on the positive side, but I'm gonna go check the drill job on my tuners anyway haha.

Stealthdjentstic · 06-14-2012, 06:57 PM

Did you check for a MiM stamp in the neck pocket too eric?!

Adam Of Angels · 06-14-2012, 07:10 PM

I'm friends with a lot of players and gear whores, and I've heard mostly good things about their Rico's. Very few were in any way endorsed by Bernie. I've never owned one, so I couldn't care much less. I've owned a number of Strictly 7's and KxK's, and they usually go up for trade not long after reaching my hands... Why? Because I do that with just about everything I get - I try them out, see what they're all about, then move them on to the next guy that is curious, because it's a hobby of mine to try new guitars all of the time. I am definitely not alone with that hobby. The story is the same with just about every brand, it's just that the small builder stuff tends to stand out a bit more. For the record, nothing leaves my hands without full disclosure, so if the theory is that messed up guitars are being "rid of" without mention of their flaws, then our itrader system should be put to good use, so as to prevent such a thing from happening again in the future.

glassmoon0fo · 06-14-2012, 07:14 PM

^yup

EOT · 06-14-2012, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealthdjentstic

I noticed the same thing, as well as KxK.

I have three KxK's and one BRJ. I have two more KxK's being built right now. With no intention of ever letting them go. The BRJ is currently being rebuilt...

HighGain510 · 06-14-2012, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EOT

I have three KxK's and one BRJ. I have two more KxK's being built right now. With no intention of ever letting them go. The BRJ is currently being rebuilt...

Well there goes your theory Stealth....

Stealthdjentstic · 06-14-2012, 07:27 PM

It wasnt a theory. All I said is I also see KxK's go up for sale frequently. So there goes YOUR theory.

HighGain510 · 06-14-2012, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealthdjentstic

It wasnt a theory. All I said is I also see KxK's go up for sale frequently. So there goes YOUR theory.

How many have gone up for sale total? I don't own and never have owned a KxK so I have no horse in that race either, just curious why you think so many have been sold.

Stealthdjentstic · 06-14-2012, 07:39 PM

Looking at the classifieds? To be fair people selling kxks just seem to buy more with the money.

ziggystarpuff · 06-14-2012, 07:41 PM

pardon my noob question, but why does is take so damn long to get a BRJ, granted I have never played one but what is the deal? I also refuse to believe that Bernie handles all the final aspects of the build, if it's order overload then wouldn't one know when to quit taking them or why add a BF sale if it takes that long already? please don't flame me too hard I'm just curious.

EOT · 06-14-2012, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziggystarpuff

pardon my noob question, but why does is take so damn long to get a BRJ, granted I have never played one but what is the deal? I also refuse to believe that Bernie handles all the final aspects of the build, if it's order overload then wouldn't one know when to quit taking them or why add a BF sale if it takes that long already? please don't flame me too hard I'm just curious.

Who knows? It can take just as long to get a KxK. It seems to be the nature of the beast.

MaxOfMetal · 06-14-2012, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziggystarpuff

pardon my noob question, but why does is take so damn long to get a BRJ, granted I have never played one but what is the deal? I also refuse to believe that Bernie handles all the final aspects of the build, if it's order overload then wouldn't one know when to quit taking them or why add a BF sale if it takes that long already? please don't flame me too hard I'm just curious.

Bernie has admitted in his own words that all he does is the finally assembly work, so fret dress/crown, cut/install the nut, electronics install, and hardware install.

He has an entire woodshop full of employees who glue, cut, and shape the guitars, as well as fret them. Then he has a professional (and great) paint guy to do 95% of the finish work.

From what I gather, his woodshop works around the clock to push out dozens upon dozens of nearly finished guitars so that he constantly has stock. One of his friends/sales agents who used to post here once bragged that Bernie had over 200+ guitars out of woodshop in various stages of being finished and that most were not spoken for.

There is a lot of speculation about why it has taken so long, and why communication has just about broken down completely for pretty long intervals. For a short time, the only way folks were getting updates was via this forum. All kinds of excuses have popped up, some logical and understandable, and others a little suspect (like the three or four "rogue employees" who have popped up over the last year and a half).

Considering how many BRJ guitars in the BFR run alone have needed to rebuilt two or three times, it shouldn't surprise anyone if a dud makes it through. How many builders scrap such a huge percentage of nearly finished guitars?

Quote:

Originally Posted by EOT

Who knows? It can take just as long to get a KxK. It seems to be the nature of the beast.

The difference is that KxK is a one person shop. Rob does a have a sales guy, but he is the only one who does the woodwork.

BRJ is more of a smaller-medium scale company than a one man shop.

ziggystarpuff · 06-14-2012, 08:02 PM

I can understand long wait times for a small scale shop especially a one man show, but I haven't heard anything worth the wait for the BRJ's, I repair instruments full time and I understand things take time but the longest thing I deal with is waiting for a finish to cure. CNC machines work pretty damn fast lol as for the rest of the setup stuff, it doesn't take long at all unless your making chicken salad out of chicken shit like working on a cheap guitar out of the box.

MaxOfMetal · 06-14-2012, 08:17 PM

Bernie got a little ambitious/greedy, took in FAR too many orders and that in turn stretched his staff and himself too thin to keep things moving smoothly. The fact that there were and still are so many guitars that needed to be rebuilt and had spec errors is the biggest sign of that.

When Bernie was moving 150 guitars in a few years time, he and his crew were able to stay on top of things, but compressing that into the space of a few months caused all kinds of things to go wrong. Every rebuild and rework has caused significant slow down. The fact that some BFR slots have changes hands as many as four times certainly doesn't help.

It's interesting to look at the first few months of posts in the BRJ BFR thread. It seems that many predictions made by folks, myself included, has wound up coming to fruition.

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06-14-2012, 05:40 PM	#52
Larrikin666 Deadite Join Date: May 2009 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 3,340 Thanked: 44 Feedback Score: 23 reviews	Holy shit. This is terrible. I know I'm one of the biggest Bernie fanatics around here, but that's not okay. Not even close. I don't envy being in your situation. The best thing I can recommend is talking to Bernie about it. Shoot me a PM if you want some help approaching him. He and I talk on the phone 3 or 4 times a week. I'd be happy to help facilitate the conversation with him if you want to go that route. Phrygian, mattofvengeance, glassmoon0fo and 3 others like this. Victims of Contagion Our Facebook page Kemper(s) all up in this piece

06-14-2012, 06:01 PM	#55
glassmoon0fo Boats 'n Hoes Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: bossier city, la Posts: 1,754 Thanked: 27 Feedback Score: 16 reviews	Holy hell, I can't believe something like that ever left the shop. The only thing I can think of, is that since this guitar was made a few years ago from one of his discount runs, maybe he was letting others handle the workload? Pure speculation on my part, but it makes no sense how so many of his instruments are so spectacular and then there's this. Good luck man. "I think he actually means beach wood. As in driftwood. For a sound as huge as the ocean." - TomAwesome Most women just pretend that Men are the crazy ones. trust me. But when the new Dark Age arrives and they need food and shelter they will be lining up to lay down and please for a handful of blackberries and a deer skin hat. Good luck with you both and remember "it's 187 on an undercover cop" - Some Guy on Facebook

06-14-2012, 07:10 PM	#64
Adam Of Angels Banned Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Mount Pleasant, PA Posts: 5,907 Thanked: 89 $Adam Of Angels is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Adam Of Angels is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Adam Of Angels is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Adam Of Angels is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Adam Of Angels is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Adam Of Angels is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Adam Of Angels is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ Feedback Score: 73 reviews	I'm friends with a lot of players and gear whores, and I've heard mostly good things about their Rico's. Very few were in any way endorsed by Bernie. I've never owned one, so I couldn't care much less. I've owned a number of Strictly 7's and KxK's, and they usually go up for trade not long after reaching my hands... Why? Because I do that with just about everything I get - I try them out, see what they're all about, then move them on to the next guy that is curious, because it's a hobby of mine to try new guitars all of the time. I am definitely not alone with that hobby. The story is the same with just about every brand, it's just that the small builder stuff tends to stand out a bit more. For the record, nothing leaves my hands without full disclosure, so if the theory is that messed up guitars are being "rid of" without mention of their flaws, then our itrader system should be put to good use, so as to prevent such a thing from happening again in the future. Galius, mattofvengeance, thrsher and 4 others like this.

06-14-2012, 07:14 PM	#65
glassmoon0fo Boats 'n Hoes Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: bossier city, la Posts: 1,754 Thanked: 27 Feedback Score: 16 reviews	^yup "I think he actually means beach wood. As in driftwood. For a sound as huge as the ocean." - TomAwesome Most women just pretend that Men are the crazy ones. trust me. But when the new Dark Age arrives and they need food and shelter they will be lining up to lay down and please for a handful of blackberries and a deer skin hat. Good luck with you both and remember "it's 187 on an undercover cop" - Some Guy on Facebook

06-14-2012, 05:35 PM	#51
JaeSwift Of Blood and Sawdust Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Badhoevedorp, the Netherlands Posts: 1,814 Thanked: 27 Feedback Score: 8 reviews	Of all those things, IMO the binding job is the most ridiculous as that's in plain sight. If it was a bolt on it could have been fixed relatively easily but sadly it isn't. The BKP thing, while stupid, isn't that much of a bother. Not properly shieldng cavities sounds like pure slop/time cutting to me.

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06-14-2012, 05:47 PM	#54
TRENCHLORD 4ARMEDschoolSECURITY Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: corncountry IL Posts: 3,661 Thanked: 11 Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Is it the photo angles, light reflection, or are some frets round crowned and some frets flat-top? I like flats (as long as ALL fret tops are kept under 1mm), but having both rounds and flats on the same axe is a bit weird IMO.

06-14-2012, 06:10 PM	#56
infernalservice SS.org Regular Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Royal Oak, MI Posts: 961 Thanked: 42 Feedback Score: 10 reviews	I am glad someone finally posted irrefutable evidence of some of Bernie's shoddier work. I have owned two Rico's. One was a great playing and looking guitar. The other came to with scratched tuning machines, mismatched pickup rings, verticle notced gaps between the ebony board and maple neck, a terrible overspray paint job on the burst finish, some fake looking ping floyd rose, and was wired incorrectly to a Petrucci style mini-toggle. Call me crazy, but a luthier should be able to tell the difference between a full humbucker tone and a tapped one, right?

06-14-2012, 06:17 PM	#58
Stealthdjentstic Banned Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Vancouver, BC, Canadia Posts: 19,978 Thanked: 338 Feedback Score: 10 reviews	I noticed the same thing, as well as KxK.

06-14-2012, 06:51 PM	#61
Stealthdjentstic Banned Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Vancouver, BC, Canadia Posts: 19,978 Thanked: 338 Feedback Score: 10 reviews	Yeah, I'm just saying you do get quite a few up fs

06-14-2012, 06:57 PM	#63
Stealthdjentstic Banned Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Vancouver, BC, Canadia Posts: 19,978 Thanked: 338 Feedback Score: 10 reviews	Did you check for a MiM stamp in the neck pocket too eric?!

06-14-2012, 07:27 PM	#68
Stealthdjentstic Banned Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Vancouver, BC, Canadia Posts: 19,978 Thanked: 338 Feedback Score: 10 reviews	It wasnt a theory. All I said is I also see KxK's go up for sale frequently. So there goes YOUR theory.

06-14-2012, 07:39 PM	#70
Stealthdjentstic Banned Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Vancouver, BC, Canadia Posts: 19,978 Thanked: 338 Feedback Score: 10 reviews	Looking at the classifieds? To be fair people selling kxks just seem to buy more with the money.

06-14-2012, 07:41 PM	#71
ziggystarpuff ss.org Regular Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Gadsden, AL Posts: 73 Thanked: 23 / 1 Feedback Score: 0 reviews	pardon my noob question, but why does is take so damn long to get a BRJ, granted I have never played one but what is the deal? I also refuse to believe that Bernie handles all the final aspects of the build, if it's order overload then wouldn't one know when to quit taking them or why add a BF sale if it takes that long already? please don't flame me too hard I'm just curious.

06-14-2012, 08:02 PM	#74
ziggystarpuff ss.org Regular Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Gadsden, AL Posts: 73 Thanked: 23 / 1 Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I can understand long wait times for a small scale shop especially a one man show, but I haven't heard anything worth the wait for the BRJ's, I repair instruments full time and I understand things take time but the longest thing I deal with is waiting for a finish to cure. CNC machines work pretty damn fast lol as for the rest of the setup stuff, it doesn't take long at all unless your making chicken salad out of chicken shit like working on a cheap guitar out of the box.

06-14-2012, 08:17 PM	#75
MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. • Super Moderator • Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 21,202 Thanked: 89 Feedback Score: 5 reviews	Bernie got a little ambitious/greedy, took in FAR too many orders and that in turn stretched his staff and himself too thin to keep things moving smoothly. The fact that there were and still are so many guitars that needed to be rebuilt and had spec errors is the biggest sign of that. When Bernie was moving 150 guitars in a few years time, he and his crew were able to stay on top of things, but compressing that into the space of a few months caused all kinds of things to go wrong. Every rebuild and rework has caused significant slow down. The fact that some BFR slots have changes hands as many as four times certainly doesn't help. It's interesting to look at the first few months of posts in the BRJ BFR thread. It seems that many predictions made by folks, myself included, has wound up coming to fruition. AcousticMinja and ziggystarpuff like this. Need help with setting up a trem? Need info on your Ibby? Live in Milwaukee? Please feel free to message me. New Rules. Read Them.

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