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Unread 06-11-2012, 08:53 AM   #76
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I think the only sensible non-classical style tuning for these instruments without fanned frets are ones like Rondo suggests with the gauges and info on the page - such as EADG EADGBE - The italic DG and EA being a tone apart in pitch. Bass+guitar could make for some interesting playing.
BEAD BEADGB could be another cool one.
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Unread 06-11-2012, 09:12 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EtherealEntity View Post
I tried to find something yesterday to counter some negative comments. They've been used in classical for a very long time, but of course the tuning is different. Using them more as open bass strings e.g E D C B rather than E B F# C# so going nowhere near as low and often not fretting them at all.

There's plenty of that to be found 10 string guitar - YouTube

But I'd assume most questioning of this instrument is with regards to the very low pitch if tuned standard, or the width of the neck with regards to fretting. I think one only needs to check out some Yves Carbonne to get rid of any thoughts that this width might be unplayable.

With the pitch - I must agree. I can't think of much use, or what the tone would be like, of a G# at a mere 30 inches. I think it's odd to make an instrument like this without fanned frets (assuming 4ths tuning), especially coming from a company which produces fanned frets. Were the high end short enough to consider tuning up some, then the low pitches would be more acceptable in my opinion.


Thanks for posting this. Im surprised to see it played like this. Id expect it be more for open tuning stuff. :p
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Unread 06-11-2012, 10:53 AM   #78
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I think it's interesting that ERG players always seem to have to separate themselves from this perceived mass of tasteless people who just like adding more strings for "teh djents" or something lol. Kinda how like "shredders" have to constantly separate themselves from a perceived mass of egotistic emotionless wankers. I'm not getting worked up here, it just interests me. Bassists seem to not get as much crap for adding more strings, and the chapman stick is confusing to most but not hated as much as other ERGs. And decent violinists aren't having to constantly separate themselves from the crap that sometimes comes out of middle school and high school orchestras. There's always gonna be bad/tasteless players, it just seems that some things are more controversial for some reason.

Sorry for derailing this thread any further

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Unread 06-11-2012, 12:10 PM   #79
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Quote:
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There's always gonna be bad/tasteless players, it just seems that some things are more controversial for some reason.
It seems to me that the controversy arises when there's some sort of subculture or "scene" involved. Then there's kind of a bandwagon effect that happens, and there's some homogenization of the style and less emphasis on musicality or innovation and facility on the instrument. So in some cases, whether with shred or djent, there are so many people doing predictable things that one must make a real effort to be recognized as unique or high quality. That said, a lot of players of "stereotypical" genre music are really talented and we can't all start off as innovators either.

I agree that bassists seem to be more accepting of extended-range instruments. I think that's partly because there's not as strong of an association between ERBs and a particular scene or style of music, so ERB guys don't have to work as hard to avoid pigeonholing. But there are some "Jaco only needed four" nazis out there.

I think it's a similar situation with the other instruments you mentioned. How many crappy violinists come out of school thinking they're hella cool, join a band, etc? Probably a much smaller percentage than guitarists!

Edit: Oh, and as for the guitar itself... I'm a bassist myself and cant really justify buying gear that won't make me money at this point, but if I had some money to blow I would totally get one. I have no idea what I'd do with it but that actually makes it even more appealing. I like to experiment.
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Unread 06-11-2012, 12:16 PM   #80
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I think people get a little too wrapped up in what role a particular tool is "supposed" to play in an abstract arena.

The bass guitar is less than a century old as far as I know, however so many folks seem to feel they know with absolute certainty what its role should be at all times. The guitar has been around MUCH longer and the number of strings it possess has changed along with the types of roles it can play in a band situation.

Moreover, if Bobby McFerrin is "allowed" to do all the shit he does w/ his voice I think that in itself should be proof that you shouldn't put unnecessary restrictions on your instrument.

A guy I know through a friend came over this weekend and I showed him my multiscale 8 and explained to him the Drop E tuning and how it can be used to feign a 6 string tuning but with a little extra girth on the bottom of chords and the only thing he could say was "I wouldn't even know what to do with that. I have trouble with 6 strings." Then he just proceeded to bang on my E1 and tell me how low it was as if I'd been previously unaware.

I've had other ppl who'd never even seen an 8 string pick it up and come up with things I'd have NEVER in a million years thought of.

I think it all has to do with what blocks you put up in your mind prior to trying out an instrument.

For all we know every one of us could compose the next masterpiece on one of these, and then again we may NEVER need one, but a lack of application for one person != a lack of purpose altogether.



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Unread 06-11-2012, 02:01 PM   #81
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I'm just going to put this here...

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Unread 06-11-2012, 02:13 PM   #82
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Under the right players, this would be just beautiful. I'd get tired of hearing G#0 Chugga chugga though
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Unread 06-11-2012, 02:44 PM   #83
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Unread 06-11-2012, 05:47 PM   #84
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Uhh what is on the right? Has it been finished? I NEED TO KNOW.
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Unread 06-11-2012, 05:50 PM   #85
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Looks like a beast



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Unread 06-11-2012, 06:20 PM   #86
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Another 14 string bass being build.

Unfortunately i don't think it was ever finished
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Unread 06-11-2012, 06:42 PM   #87
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Ill agree with konfyouzd. I think ERGs beyond 8 strings (and sometimes including 8 strings) are totally ridiculous and the reason is because i dont have a use for them. For my personal purposes 8 strings are the very tipping point of where extended range meets shock factor and non-necessity. However as far as im concerned anyone playing a 10 string agile will never be playing it at an arena show.

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Unread 06-11-2012, 07:34 PM   #88
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Looks like it's still FS. I emailed Kurt again to find out about the nut width. I sooo want to buy it but I know I really shouldn't. I personally find a lot of use for multiple strings. I don't think we've even scratched the surface of what can be done on these things.
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Unread 06-11-2012, 08:18 PM   #89
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Not interested in anything beyond an 8 but AM interested in other guys getting them, experimenting with them and coming up with some cool shit

There's no need to hate on them
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Unread 06-11-2012, 08:22 PM   #90
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Lets just all agree to disagree, its an opinionated topic. Obviously people interested in an ERG to the extend of 10 strings or further really want to expand from the possibilities of the standard 6 string. I feel this is both because of a yearning for a different thought process or a larger palette to compose. Those who don't understand why they would be useful just don't have that same kind of mind set, and they don't have to.

Now, lets stop derailing the thread and talk about this:
A new (as far as the brand obviously) and exciting instrument that is available for a very reasonable price.

Rather then discuss why the instrument is pointless isn't it more productive to discuss the possibilities? This is sevenstring.org guys, a place that started for those who wanted to push beyond the norm. Personally I'm not sure what I would do with this instrument but I'm sure as hell excited to see what people can create with it.
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Unread 06-11-2012, 09:17 PM   #91
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Hey now, not trollin or hating, I do have an 8 string. I just can't imagine WTH I would do with 10 strings.
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Unread 06-11-2012, 09:40 PM   #92
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I was waiting for one of these to show up! I want one but can't afford it. It is so massive and beautiful.

Check out these vids and links. People have definitely just began to scratch the surface with 9+ strings.



Warr Guitars, Inc. - Gallery - Phalanx.Series



Also check out Garry Goodman's album.

I just love extended range stuff.

Marco Sfogli, Andy Timmons, James Labrie, Mikael Akerfeldt, Trent Reznor, Tosin Abasi, Tony Iommi, Steve Vai, Randy Rhoads, Zakk Wylde, Donald Fagen.

I'll let the music be my signature.
Will be adding more later.
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Unread 06-12-2012, 02:56 AM   #93
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Not related to ERGs, but definitely to the discussion:

I have friends and coworkers who do Ironman events. Occasionally I'll witness someone, who is clearly not in shape, but who decides to give advice to the competitors regarding why they are not training correctly.

And I'm sure I'm not the only one who wonders... was it so important to this person to insert a negative opinion about the whole thing into a discussion about, say, running shoes or derailleur systems?

"Hey, everybody, there's a new running shoe!"

"I don't find it useful for myself... and don't have enough mental flexibility to put myself into someone else's shoes to imagine otherwise."

I particularly like that there would be a product discussion... and that someone who had to insert their ego into it would also assume that the product discussion was also rooted in ego.

Go with what one knows, I suppose.

----

I commented earlier in this topic regarding that scale length, but I agree that 30" severely limits any upwards movement in tuning. I'm hoping to do 10 strings with a high G at 25.5", so I won't be pushed lower than B0 at the low end.

If you don't care enough to research your own question, why should anyone else care more?

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Unread 06-12-2012, 03:05 AM   #94
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No low B string for the bass...

Seriously tho, I see this as a little pointless, if you want a guitar and a bass in one then you need a double neck with two separate outputs. If you want a really ERG instrument, then this tuning doesn't make sense... To be perfectly fair, I own an 8 string and I just cannot see how any notes lower can be useful in a guitar setting. That being said, a neck wider than an 8 string, with such a long scale, would be getting into seriously tough to play category...

I think this is a passing trend, but hey, if you dig, enjoy!
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Unread 06-12-2012, 05:12 AM   #95
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I could see some cool open tuning stuff w this. I think DrakkarTyrannjs uses a pretty non-conventional 6 string tuning that looks a lot like 2 stacked open chords.



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Unread 06-12-2012, 08:04 AM   #96
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No low B string for the bass...

Seriously tho, I see this as a little pointless, if you want a guitar and a bass in one then you need a double neck with two separate outputs. If you want a really ERG instrument, then this tuning doesn't make sense... To be perfectly fair, I own an 8 string and I just cannot see how any notes lower can be useful in a guitar setting. That being said, a neck wider than an 8 string, with such a long scale, would be getting into seriously tough to play category...

I think this is a passing trend, but hey, if you dig, enjoy!
AAL have some low C# action on Weightless (9 strings range) and it sounds fine. Meshuggah have Spasm which have a lot of low Bb action, sounds fine too. The only limit is what you do with it, no one forces you to use the range, it's just there if a particular piece demands it. That's how I see it.


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Unread 06-12-2012, 08:07 AM   #97
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Quote:
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The only limit is what you do with it, no one forces you to use the range, it's just there if a particular piece demands it. That's how I see it.


So many folks fail to notice they don't feel compelled to use all 6 of their strings at all times normally. The addition of strings shouldn't suddenly make it mandatory.

Speaking of 6 strings I'm having a bit of an affair with them at the moment and tend to prefer 8 strings.



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Unread 06-12-2012, 10:02 AM   #98
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I think this is a passing trend
Decacordes have been in play for about 200 years.
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Unread 06-12-2012, 10:06 AM   #99
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Almost 4x as long as the bass guitar has existed. Yet somehow this is infringing upon the range of the bass...
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Unread 06-12-2012, 10:25 AM   #100
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This guitar is ideal for tuning in 3.5 semitone neutral thirds, allowing quartertones (24 equal steps per octave) to be played. Here's the details: Retune to play quartertone scales. Microtonal beginners guide
With a slight retuning to alternating Just Intonation major and minor thirds (3.86 and 3.16 semitones), Just Intonation can be played, here's the relevant post in that thread: Retune to play quartertone scales. Microtonal beginners guide .. and of course you could always retune to 12ET alternating major and minor thirds.

Don't be put off by Agile's bizarre tuning for this, i'm assuming they realise that anyone who buys this will very probably have their own tuning in mind and will immediately replace the strings with their own custom set .. a customer wouldn't want to waste money on expensive stock strings. For this reason i'd be happy even if it were strung F#F#F#BEADGBE.

Member Scott Fernandez' avatar states it perfectly (hope Scott doesn't mind):

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