Problem with intonation of 8th string on my RG2228A

[Santuzzo]

Hi,

when I got my RG2228A the intonation of the 8th string (F) was way off (12th fret fretted sharp compared to 12th fret harmonic).
I just tried to adjust the intonation by moving the saddle of the 8th string back, and the intonation did get better, but it's still not 100%, but the saddle is already almost all the way back (only about 1mm room left for moving it back).

Is this normal for the 8th string to not be 100% in correct intonation? Or what can I do to adjust the intonation when the saddle is already all the way to the back but the 12th fret fretted note is still sharp compared to the 12th fret harmonic?

Thanks,
Lars

[mishabasi]

what gauge string is it and what are you tuning it to? Insufficient tension could cause difficult intonation that may be out of the range of adjustment for your bridge.

[Santuzzo]

Originally Posted by mishabasi

what gauge string is it and what are you tuning it to? Insufficient tension could cause difficult intonation that may be out of the range of adjustment for your bridge.

Thanks!

I still have the factory strings on it and I use the factory tuning which is F for the 8th string and the gauge (just checked on the Ibanez website) is .065

Should be ok, if that's the factory gauge and factory tuning, no?

[SpaceDock]

Factory tuning is F#, right.

[Rook]

Raising the action slightly should be enough to cure it.

[Santuzzo]

Originally Posted by SpaceDock

Factory tuning is F#, right.

No, factory tuning is F:
Electric Guitars - RG2228A | Ibanez guitars

Originally Posted by Fun111

Raising the action slightly should be enough to cure it.

Wouldn't raising the action cause the opposite effect of 12th fret fretted note being even more sharp compared to 12th fret harmonic?

[baO]

dude, buy yourself an 74 gauge, perfect for F on a 27'' scale.

[Rook]

Originally Posted by Santuzzo

Wouldn't raising the action cause the opposite effect of 12th fret fretted note being even more sharp compared to 12th fret harmonic?

You've made me unsure... My math would agree with my first statement however so I'm gonna go with no

Raising the action increases the proportion of the string below the 12th fret. If you think of it like a triangle. Increase the length of one side and the hypotenuse (string) gets longer. When you fret the string, the length of the string above the (in this case) 12th fret is fixed, regardless of intonation, so the extra length has to be beneath the 12th fret hence.

If the FRETTED note is currently MORE SHARP than your HARMONIC, then raising the action will FLATTEN the FRETTED note.

I capitalised bits because it even confused me reading it back and I wrote it haha

Also, putting a thicker string on will have the opposite, non helpful effect, you'll have to move the saddle even further back

[Santuzzo]

Originally Posted by Fun111

You've made me unsure... My math would agree with my first statement however so I'm gonna go with no

Raising the action increases the proportion of the string below the 12th fret. If you think of it like a triangle. Increase the length of one side and the hypotenuse (string) gets longer. When you fret the string, the length of the string above the (in this case) 12th fret is fixed, regardless of intonation, so the extra length has to be beneath the 12th fret hence.

If the FRETTED note is currently MORE SHARP than your HARMONIC, then raising the action will FLATTEN the FRETTED note.

I capitalised bits because it even confused me reading it back and I wrote it haha

Also, putting a thicker string on will have the opposite, non helpful effect, you'll have to move the saddle even further back

Oh, ok. I thought the higher action would sort of result in the string being bent a bit when fretted, thus making the note go sharp.
This effect would be a bigger problem with lower tension, so I think a thicker gauge string would help, but why would Ibanez put on a .065 string and tune it to F if it's not possible to adjust the intonation right?!
I thought I must be doing something wrong, then....

[shitsøn]

Hey Lars.

You should definitely get a 74 string and try again. First of all, the tension of the stock lowest string makes little sense compared to the other 7 strings on that axe, very inbalanced. I'm quite sure a thicker string would help with the intonation, too. From my experience, a 74 works best for F on a 27" neck. It still isn't super tight, so if you like your strings very tight, try an 80.

[Santuzzo]

Thanks everybody.

Is it common to have intonation issues with a 065 as an 8th string tuned to F?

[Rook]

As I say, a thicker string will mean you need to move the saddle even further back to intonate so I you do do that you'll definitely need to raise the action.

And I don't think people tend to notice as it uncommon to use the 8th string much above the 7th or 8th fret.

It's an unfortunate downside of having such big range on a guitar because it means you need a lot of space difference to get the intonation right. I've had some difficulty getting the intonation spot on at the twelfth on a number of 2228's using everything from a 68 to an 80. You just end up compromising. If you aim to optimise the intonation around the 2nd to 7th frets you'll have far more success.

[baO]

Originally Posted by Santuzzo

Thanks everybody.

Is it common to have intonation issues with a 065 as an 8th string tuned to F?

i can tell you that i used an 72 for sometime, and then i get an 74^ huge difference in intonation

[Drache713]

I use a 74 on mine tuned to F#, intonation isn't perfect it's still a little sharp but I just live with it. I wouldn't want to go any smaller gauge wise cause I like this level of tension and I wouldn't want to go any longer scale length cause it becomes harder to play. I may try to raise the action on mine (the triangle analogy helped me out to understand) but I don't want to mess with it too much as I like the action the way it is.

[Dayn]

I use a tapered La Bella .086 for E on my RG2228 and the intonation is great. I got it tapered so I could easily fit it in the saddle without unwinding it. It also bends much easier over the saddle so it's a little more flexible.

Given your very low tension for .065 at F, I think it's extremely likely that you're fretting it way too hard and making it sharp. Going with bigger strings in my experience has always meant I need to watch my fretting. But when you're also using such a low tension, that just makes things so much worse.

So all I can suggest is, get a heavier string (I like .080 for F on my RG2228); have a light touch so you don't fret it sharp; and make sure it sits in the saddle properly.

[Santuzzo]

Thanks again everybody!

Could this intonation problem also indicate that there is something wrong with my guitar?
Reason I'm asking this is that at the Ibanez forum someone suggested that I bring the guitar to a tech.

[Rook]

No nothing wrong with the guitar, he probably said that because a tech will be able to solve it more efficiently.

[Santuzzo]

This is how far back I got the saddle on the 8th already, while intonation is still a bit off.
Do you guys think I can move the saddle even farther back by a bit?

[EtherealEntity]

I don't know - if it moves then move it. Nothing wrong with having it all the way back.

But yeah, I'm sure it's the string. The stock low on 7 strings is ridiculously thin let alone 8s! Get a 74 on there for sure, then see where we are at. For the record, a 74 in F# is the same tension as a 42 in E. Pretty floppy huh? And you're in F!

[Drache713]

that's exactly how far back I have mine. It can't really go back any further, if you look at the fine tuner there is a groove the screw goes in and pushing the saddle all the way back like that puts it at the end of the groove.

I ordered a 9-65 d'addario set, the 65 is lighter than I'd like tension wise but we will see how it works with intonation.

[Santuzzo]

Originally Posted by EtherealEntity

I don't know - if it moves then move it. Nothing wrong with having it all the way back.

But yeah, I'm sure it's the string. The stock low on 7 strings is ridiculously thin let alone 8s! Get a 74 on there for sure, then see where we are at. For the record, a 74 in F# is the same tension as a 42 in E. Pretty floppy huh? And you're in F!

Thanks!

Originally Posted by Drache713

that's exactly how far back I have mine. It can't really go back any further, if you look at the fine tuner there is a groove the screw goes in and pushing the saddle all the way back like that puts it at the end of the groove.

I ordered a 9-65 d'addario set, the 65 is lighter than I'd like tension wise but we will see how it works with intonation.

I also ordered these strings, but next time I change strings I will replace the 8th string with a .074 gauge

[Drache713]

Originally Posted by Santuzzo

Thanks!



I also ordered these strings, but next time I change strings I will replace the 8th string with a .074 gauge

Well in theory a 74 gauge string would actually be worse for intonation. the bigger the string, the further back you have to move the saddle. So if you're using a 65 currently and it isn't intonating properly I doubt that a 74 would be much better.

[Santuzzo]

Originally Posted by Drache713

Well in theory a 74 gauge string would actually be worse for intonation. the bigger the string, the further back you have to move the saddle. So if you're using a 65 currently and it isn't intonating properly I doubt that a 74 would be much better.

this is confusing me

I thought, the tension will make a difference, so on a .074 I would have more tension which would make intonating easier?

[Drache713]

Originally Posted by Santuzzo

this is confusing me

I thought, the tension will make a difference, so on a .074 I would have more tension which would make intonating easier?

Tension does not technically factor into calculating intonation whatsoever. Intonation is a calculation of string density/mass (string gauge) and scale length.

Think of it this way: when you are looking at the string saddles moving from D down to A and E and so on, the saddles go further and further back. Why? Because the strings are higher mass/density and to compensate and adjust the "effective string length" the saddle has to be moved further back.

Make sense?

[Metal_Webb]

I was having intonation issues on several of my guitars. It came from me being a noob and putting my action way too high on the bottom string.
For example:
I had a 0.056 tuned to C on my strat copy. Saddle all the way back and it was still fretting about a quarter tone sharp at the 12th fret. I dropped the action down a ton and it is now nearly perfectly intonating.

So give that a shot