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Unread 12-25-2011, 02:52 PM   #1
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8 String Guitar Advice

Alright, I believe this sort of thing goes here, not in the ERG section. If I'm wrong, I apologize.

I'm looking for suggestions for 8 string guitars. This is more to supplement the stuff I've looked at.

For a budget I have about 1000$ maximum, can't do any more.

I've looked at Esp/Ltd but don't like their short scale necks.

Ibanez has the 2228, but I'm having issues finding one used or one that scrapes my price range. The RGA 8 seems ok, but I'm to fond of the fact that I will need to change the pups.

Agile has the nicest stuff for my range. Ebony boards, long scales, 28" is my idea length as I hate flab or the dull thud created by short scale lengths.

Schecter has the same issue as Esp/Ltd. I just don't think a 26" scale is long enough (It might be 26.5" but still)

I've been reading into this stuff for a while and just want to know about any options I could have missed.

Cheers.
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Unread 12-25-2011, 05:05 PM   #2
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I was an owner o 8string PAS (Perihellium, 28") and when I sold it, I decided that I'll never go for 8string with such a short scale. Then before I got my PAS Iceman 8 (30.3") I played on ibanez 2228 for a while (27" again) and I reaffirmed my doubts - 27" and everything below is to short for lower than standard tuning. I also got 6string baritone 28" and it's much better at low E/D with same strings gauge. So all in all If you don't want use strings like .90 just to tune correctly, I recommend you anything with scale longer than 27"
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Unread 12-25-2011, 06:06 PM   #3
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Schecter has announced a 27.5" scale guitar which will presumably come out in the first half of next year; that should fit your price range. Apart from that, I think you've accurately summed up the options. If you can settle for a 27" scale and are willing to pay a little more money, the new Carvins look pretty good, but we'll have to wait for the first orders to be shipped before we can judge them with any certainty.
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Unread 12-25-2011, 08:22 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celticelk View Post
Schecter has announced a 27.5" scale guitar which will presumably come out in the first half of next year; that should fit your price range.
I'll probably have to wait and see what they look like. I dig some of their eight strings. I could see using a 27.5" scale.
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Unread 12-25-2011, 09:10 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Danukenator View Post
28" is my idea length as I hate flab or the dull thud created by short scale lengths.
To be more accurate, you probably hate the flab and dull thud created by not having sufficient tension on the strings. Every thread about bad tone on the lowest strings I've run across and done some string calculations for (and I read and post in quite a few) have someone using strings for their lowest pitches which are lighter in tension than their highest, thinnest strings.

As gz-s notes, one must use larger strings at shorter scale lengths. Even then, what I read indicates that the majority of SS.org members still use hugely unbalanced string tensions.

Anyway, all this may or may not matter to you in the future. If it does, then hopefully you'll be able to correctly identify any issues you run across.

If you don't care enough to research your own question, why should anyone else care more?

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Unread 12-26-2011, 01:51 AM   #6
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I'd stay away from Agile if you're looking for a high quality instrument. The Carvin DC800 starts at $999. Carvin makes top quality instruments for less than half the price of the competition (whatever that may be). I have one on the way. I'm not happy with the Agile I have currently. Ibanez is great as well, but their prices have gotten so high. I got my RG1527 back in '06 I believe for <$700 brand new from an Ibanez dealer.
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Unread 12-26-2011, 03:52 AM   #7
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Old Schecter C8 Hellraiser. Model with Mahogany neck,not Maple..
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Unread 12-26-2011, 09:51 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk Knuckle View Post
I'd stay away from Agile if you're looking for a high quality instrument. The Carvin DC800 starts at $999. Carvin makes top quality instruments for less than half the price of the competition (whatever that may be). I have one on the way. I'm not happy with the Agile I have currently. Ibanez is great as well, but their prices have gotten so high. I got my RG1527 back in '06 I believe for <$700 brand new from an Ibanez dealer.
What makes you say the agile is not high quality? Can you please explain? I have two Agile 8 strings 828 models, (a bolt on, and a neck thru), and I feel they are high quality.

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Unread 12-26-2011, 12:32 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danukenator View Post
Alright, I believe this sort of thing goes here, not in the ERG section. If I'm wrong, I apologize.

I'm looking for suggestions for 8 string guitars. This is more to supplement the stuff I've looked at.

For a budget I have about 1000$ maximum, can't do any more.

I've looked at Esp/Ltd but don't like their short scale necks.

Ibanez has the 2228, but I'm having issues finding one used or one that scrapes my price range. The RGA 8 seems ok, but I'm to fond of the fact that I will need to change the pups.

Agile has the nicest stuff for my range. Ebony boards, long scales, 28" is my idea length as I hate flab or the dull thud created by short scale lengths.

Schecter has the same issue as Esp/Ltd. I just don't think a 26" scale is long enough (It might be 26.5" but still)

I've been reading into this stuff for a while and just want to know about any options I could have missed.

Cheers.
RGA8 is the best bang for the buck IMHO. I've got one and I'm gonna sell my RG2228 and buy another one. Don't believe all the tone chasers, the pickups aren't really that bad. You can hold off replacing them until you get some extra dough. Order one at Guitar Center for $699 with the 100 off coupon, ship it to the store, play it and if you don't like it return it while you're still in the store. Plus some Guitar Center's actually stock them now. You can't lose.
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Unread 12-26-2011, 02:03 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrenighthound View Post
What makes you say the agile is not high quality? Can you please explain? I have two Agile 8 strings 828 models, (a bolt on, and a neck thru), and I feel they are high quality.
I don't think they are precise enough with their fretwork, causing fretbuzz and sometimes frets that choke completely. Some of their guitars might come out better than others. They're not consistent enough.
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Unread 12-26-2011, 02:40 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Zonk Knuckle View Post
I don't think they are precise enough with their fretwork, causing fretbuzz and sometimes frets that choke completely. Some of their guitars might come out better than others. They're not consistent enough.
Well unfortunately most guitars come with some fret buzzing because it takes a lot of labor time to get them perfect. The two agiles that I have don't fret buzz at all. Yours choke completely? Sounds like maybe your action is too low on the upper frets. For one thing is that the Agile comes with strings that don't have enough tension so that will add to buzzing. If your also talking about the lower strings buzzing, I don't know what gauge of strings you use but I use a .090 and .068 for my low F# and low B. That took all my bass string buzz away and gave me much more punch and clarity.
As for over all quality; body construction, wood selections, double truss rods, long scales, 3 piece maple necks and 5 piece maple/walnut neck thrus, grover tuners, staggered string thu, ebony finger boards, I really think they are great quality for the money. Plus the passive pups sound great!!

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Unread 12-26-2011, 03:13 PM   #12
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The comments I made about Agile are not due to bad setup. On mine, specific frets on specific strings buzz more than others. A few high frets on specific strings are unusable. I had another Agile with issues regarding the Kahler that I returned to get the one I have. On the first one, the frets might have been better, but since the two I've use both had problems, I can't recommend Agile to anyone, unless maybe you have a budget under $700, you need 28.625", and you don't care about quality. I want to sell my Agile, but it's difficult when I have to be so honest about it.
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Unread 12-26-2011, 03:28 PM   #13
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I only have experiance with the schecters ESP's and ibanez's so I can't compare to agile. First and foremost. The scale on the ESP is garbage for putting it in F# standard. The schecter has a 26.5 and it holds everything very nice. If you want to drop tune lower though, you will run into issues. The ibanez Rg2228's i've played were very nice as far as scale length goes but i didn't like the neck on it. I like thicker necks even on ERG's. That's just my view. My schecter Damian Elite is amazing.
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Unread 12-26-2011, 04:44 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mishabasi View Post
First and foremost. The scale on the ESP is garbage for putting it in F# standard.
Obviously, preferences can differ.

I noted before that problems with downtuning at any scale are normally related to the person not knowing how to achieve a tension similar to the rest of the string set.

I used to run my 25.5" FM408, tuned in full fifths (Bb0 to B4) with a low .125" Bb0 string and a .090" Eb1 string. It worked well.

Three of my current 8-strings are 25.5" (one is 28.625"), and they have the lowest .090 string tuned to E1. It works well.

Out of curiosity, what string gauges were you using on the ESP when you felt it was "garbage?" That would give some context for those who want to know if your advice applies to their situation.

Cheers!

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Unread 12-26-2011, 07:34 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk Knuckle View Post
The comments I made about Agile are not due to bad setup. On mine, specific frets on specific strings buzz more than others. A few high frets on specific strings are unusable. I had another Agile with issues regarding the Kahler that I returned to get the one I have. On the first one, the frets might have been better, but since the two I've use both had problems, I can't recommend Agile to anyone, unless maybe you have a budget under $700, you need 28.625", and you don't care about quality. I want to sell my Agile, but it's difficult when I have to be so honest about it.
Yeh I hear ya. But can't you just get a level and crown done and wouldn't it take care of your problem? I'm just saying

From what I'm gathering from you, the quality control ain't the best, but you can get lucky I guess....I'm not saying for OP not to check out carvins because I actually want one myself but not because I don't like or want to use my Agiles, I just like to buy a lot of shit I don't really need.

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Unread 12-26-2011, 08:21 PM   #16
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Yeh I hear ya. But can't you just get a level and crown done and wouldn't it take care of your problem? I'm just saying
I thought about that, but the frets are not very big already. It would be great if I could just get it refretted with some bigger frets, but there's no way I'm paying for that. The "extra jumbo" on the Agile product pages is false advertising.

Anyway, the main point I was trying to get across to the op is if your budget is $1000, I'd definitely try to get something better than an Agile. Carvin DC800 and used RG2228 are IMO the best options. I went with the Carvin because it's brand new, (semi)custom, and the quality is as good or better than Ibanez.
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Unread 12-26-2011, 09:14 PM   #17
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Are Agile high quality? lets ask the guys who sell them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rondomusic
Who Should Buy a Essex/Agile/Brice guitar:
In general, these guitars are great for beginners or novice players to learn on. They are all full sized (same size as a standard electric guitar or bass guitar). They stay in tune and the necks are straight. They are also good for expert players who need a guitar to “kick around with”. Something they can bring to a friend's house, and not worry about scratching, like they would with a $1000 American made guitar. In general the Brice basses and Agile guitars offer slightly improved quality and some upgraded features (such as maple quilt tops) over the SX, Douglas and Valencia models. However, the cost of these models is higher as well.


Not hating, don't own one, but have played one, it was alright.

edit: to sum up, acceptable quality withtin a price bracket is different to high quality.
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Unread 12-26-2011, 09:44 PM   #18
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Are Agile high quality? lets ask the guys who sell them



Not hating, don't own one, but have played one, it was alright.

edit: to sum up, acceptable quality withtin a price bracket is different to high quality.
Honestly I really think he was referring to the lower priced Aglies and not the 8 string ones. The 8 string Agiles IMO are high quality. The cheapest ones start of at 500.00 dollars. First of all its not a beginner guitar. A 8 string is an extended range and not common for a beginner. Usually a beginner guitar would be a standard six string not a ERG.

They have Agiles that are 165 to 300 dollars. I really really think he was comparing those with his comment on "slightly improved quality.

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Unread 12-26-2011, 09:55 PM   #19
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Just go for an Agile!
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Unread 12-27-2011, 08:17 AM   #20
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I know this is above my previous price but how is the Oakland Axe Factory? They make an 8 string that, while not in my previous price range has fanned frets (I really like those, had them on an agile seven) and would allow me to try using an A or G string (for the highest string). They are moderately priced for a small guitar, anyone have anything to say about their quality?
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Unread 12-27-2011, 08:42 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danukenator View Post
I know this is above my previous price but how is the Oakland Axe Factory? They make an 8 string that, while not in my previous price range has fanned frets (I really like those, had them on an agile seven) and would allow me to try using an A or G string (for the highest string). They are moderately priced for a small guitar, anyone have anything to say about their quality?
I just got a non-fanned OAF 8-string a couple of months ago, and I love it. Check out my profile for links to the build thread and my NGD. This is the only custom guitar that I've ever owned, and I can't say that I have extensive experience with high-end instruments, but it's solidly built, plays and sounds great, and Tom is extremely responsive and an awesome guy to work with. We've got another build in the planning stages, in fact. =)

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For the songs of the souls, at the time they are swaying in the high regions to drink from the well of the Almighty,
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