[metalfiend666]

At this point, let me (re)introduce you to a beast of a guitar, the Blackmachine 884. It's a 25.5" to 28" fanned fret 8 string with EMG 45DC's. I played this back to back with their regular 8 string which is a 30" non fanned scale with EMG 40CS's.

First off the 30" scale is horrible to play unless you want a bass, it was way to much of a stretch at the lower frets. The upper frets were ok, but down at the first 5 or so it was just unmanageable. Also the string tension on the upper strings is ridiculous.

The 884 felt perfect. Ok, 28" is a bit of a stretch but it still feels like a guitar. The fanned frets not only aided reasonable string tension on all strings but also added clarity. Both guitars were run through the same Diezel amp on the same setting, roughly akin to the voice of satan himself, and the 884 trounced the regular 8. 7 Dying Trees played it straight after me and we both agreed that the fanned frets made a very big difference to note clarity. Without question it was the clearest guitar I've ever played, but in no way was it overly bright.

So what am I getting at here? Firstly, 30 inches is out. Completely OTT. 28" ish is about perfect for the low F#. Secondly fanned frets are a big plus for playability. I realise that for this instrument they're most likely out as they'd have a big increase on price. Thirdly, EMG 45DC's are excellent pickups for an 8 string.

As a test I detuned my RG7421XL a forth. For those who don't know the XL has a 27" scale. My guitar is fitted with a set of .010 to .056 Ernie Ball Slinky's and it is now tuned F#, B, E, A D, F#, B. It works, but the strings are understandably very floppy. I think a .070 could work as a low F# at a 27" scale, but I think a .074 would be better or a .070 at 28". Also the Blaze Bridge my guitar's fitted with sounds great at those tunings.

On more thing, maple has similar tonal properties to ebony when used as a fretboard doesn't it? If so, maple's fine with me.

[bostjan]

Well, keep in mind that the Blackmachine is a monster, too.

The thing about heavy gauges is that increasing the guage yields less and less benefit as the strings get really fat. Increasing the scale length increases the tone without breaking down at some point. But I agree that many players would be put off by anything like 30", even though I still think 30" is ok.

[urklvt]

I'm cool as hell with the 30.325" scale, that's my next project, but the Blackmachine, as freakin' awesome as it is, is not at most of our price points. I wish it were 'cause damn! I'd love one.

[Nik]

Originally Posted by Metal Ken

thats a bit of a difference. most 6 string basses are 34-35" scale. Thats a BIG difference between 28.6", almost half a foot, dude.

I know. I've played guitars of various scale lengths, so I have some idea of how it goes, and I personally find 27" to be the perfect extended scale length. Leviathan 8-strings are 27", Halo 8s are gonna be 27", etc. I mean, people have successfully tuned to F# on a 25.5" scale (I think it was Donnie's 8-string... ?) so I don't see a big deal about having to go with 28 or above.

Drew--first of all, I'll probably tune to A-standart with a high D But the extra string on top isn't necessarily for the added high notes. If I had an extra high string, this would put more notes in my fingertips when it comes to improvising and soloing, allow for expanded arpeggios for sweeping, etc... there are many applications of an added high string. I mean, I could make the argument that tuning as low as F# is silly, too, I mean, being bass territory and all...

Anyway, I'd even be willing to settle for a Rosewood fretboard, etc., if it'll get costs down to around $600.

[metalfiend666]

One other thing I've just remembered is the Blackmachine 884 has an active 2 band EQ as well. It's one hell of a guitar and if the price Doug quoted me at the time is still good it's great value, well for the UK. £2300, depending of course on woods and electronics.

I'm one player who's seriously put off by the suggestion of a 30" scale, although I realise that was just one persons suggestiong. I'm sharing my experience of the large scale 8's for information.

[Drew]

Originally Posted by noodles

I bet you don't have any problems with mud from the larger string gauge, either, do you?

* Noodles is tired of people telling him that heavy strings can't sound bright and punchy.

Well, it's more complicated than a simple yes/no. Unquestionably, thinner strings sound brighter and snappier than thicker strings. However, on the other side of the coin, I wouldnt' say a thicker string sounds more "muddy" - it's darker, but there's a world of difference between dark and muddy (and, like anything else on a guitar, "mud" depends on like 18 other factors as well).

The way I see it, though, is I still get a plenty tight and chunky low-B tone, and at the same time I've got the timbral variety of having a given note played on a .68-guage string or on a .32 or something. They sound different - that's sort of a good thing, isn't it?

* Drew notes that the fact that he tends to use pretty dark, low gain amp settings also doesn't make him the ideal thick-guage clarity person.

But in short, I agree - thick-strings=mud is crap. Talk to SRV.

[Drew]

Originally Posted by Nik

If I had an extra high string, this would put more notes in my fingertips when it comes to improvising and soloing, allow for expanded arpeggios for sweeping, etc... there are many applications of an added high string.

Um,. that's just as true for an added low strings... 8 strings are 8 strings, regardless of what you tune them to, and there's no unwritten law that you can only solo on like the top three strings...

[metalfiend666]

Doesn't TDW tune to low F on a 56 gauge?

[Nik]

Originally Posted by Drew

Um,. that's just as true for an added low strings... 8 strings are 8 strings, regardless of what you tune them to, and there's no unwritten law that you can only solo on like the top three strings...

I don't think I ever said that you only solo on the top 3 strings, all I said is that an extra high string would expand your possibilities when it comes to soloing and leads, etc.

And in any case, if you improv a solo on the low F# with some F# rhythm chugging in the background, it's guaranteed to sound like ass.

Don't get me wrong, if I buy one, I'll probably try F# tuning, too, but I'll try all sorts of other stuff, too.

[Drew]

Originally Posted by Nik

I don't think I ever said that you only solo on the top 3 strings, all I said is that an extra high string would expand your possibilities when it comes to soloing and leads, etc.

And in any case, if you improv a solo on the low F# with some F# rhythm chugging in the background, it's guaranteed to sound like ass.

Don't get me wrong, if I buy one, I'll probably try F# tuning, too, but I'll try all sorts of other stuff, too.

Oh, well you don't have to hit the open string - playing a line on the low F# string in the 12th position is going to put you in what would be like the 2nd position on the low E string, without moving out of range to go up to the high E 12th fret. That's a HUGE intervallic range for one position, hence my excitement here.

Anyway, would you also be ok with a 25.5"-28 fan?