Ibanez RG2228 and RGA8 owners beware!

[Barney]

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Hello everyone!

I'll try to cut this short and be as clear about the case as possible.
(English is not my mother tongue.)

I'll start with the bad news:
The nut on my RGA8 got ruined. It just simply broke.
Be extremely careful when tightening it or yours will end up like mine.
Just check the photos.

There are 2 big problems with the nut on the RGA8 (and probably with the one on the RG2228… if the hardware is the same):

1 - design flaw.
The screws that hold down the pads are identical.
Their length is the same for the pad(s) that hold(s) down the thinner strings as
for the ones that hold down the thicker strings.
The thicker strings will allow less grooves to catch the base of the nut.

2 - the nut is made of crap.
This should not happen to a quality material.
IMO the worst thing that could happen to a quality material (like steel) is
that the grooves wear out fast(er).

This thing just broke to pieces.

I tried to figure out what happened and came up with this:
The thickest string (D'Addario 74) did not let the screw to catch the base of the nut
tightly enough and held it back. It could not go deeper so it tore the base apart.

This problem could be solved if Ibanez put longer screws in the pads that hold down
the thicker strings and made the thing from quality metal, not crap.

There is one more thing to mention about this case before anyone starts calling me a noob idiot:
This was not "done" by me. It was "done" by a friend of mine who is a professional luthier, builds and repairs
instruments and has dealt with many many guitars with locking nuts and has not seen such thing.
This never happened to any of the guitars in his hands so far. So I don't think it's his fault.

I don't really know what to do now. Ask for a replacement part and hope to get it free?
This nut costs 175(!) US dollars according to ibanezrules.com ! (I live in Europe though…)


All the best,

Barney

Oh, I almost forgot! The small screw/bolt in the bridge (the 3rd one in the back) got ripped out from the wood also.
(The counterpart to be exact) Same day. I know it's friday but it isn't the 13th, is it?

[MaxOfMetal]

Looks like the finish just came off. Call up your country's Ibanez distro, this should be replaced for free via the warranty.

[Mvotre]

Originally Posted by MaxOfMetal

Looks like the finish just came off. Call up your country's Ibanez distro, this should be replaced for free via the warranty.

finish? look at the last photo.. theres metal missing

must be a mega ultra cheap metal, by the way

[Barney]

Yeah, there is actually a big piece missing from there where it's grey and
there are cracks in the nut that might not be noticable just by looking at these shots.

The 2nd photo is the best.

[Customisbetter]

I actually Filed the nut on my RG2228 and that finish is super hard. I believe your nut might have been bunk and you should get it replaced fairly easily.

Also, Looking again, the nut on the RGA is VERY different than that on the RG8.

[vampiregenocide]

I would expect the hardware on the 2228 is a bit better, being a prestige, though this is the first time I've heard of this issue on an RGA8.

[possumkiller]

What a POS. Thats crazy. Too many parts being made of die cast turd metal nowadays.

[Barney]

I checked the replacement parts list at Ibanez.com | Parts
and the nuts do differ:

no. 2LN1MAA001 is for the RGA8
and
no. 2LN00AA001 is for the RG2228

ibanezrules.com has the RG nut in stock that is sold for $175.

[MaxOfMetal]

Originally Posted by Customisbetter

I actually Filed the nut on my RG2228 and that finish is super hard. I believe your nut might have been bunk and you should get it replaced fairly easily.

Also, Looking again, the nut on the RGA is VERY different than that on the RG8.

The RG2228 uses the Gotoh made 2LN00AA001, while the RGA8 uses the OEM made 2LN1MAA001. Different part numbers with different specs and makers.

[leonardo7]

And now we have yet more proof for anyone wondering why the Japanese made Ibanez guitars are more expensive than the Indonesian etc made ones. Also, if the hardware is different, makes you wonder about the grades of body wood thats underneath all that paint.

[MaxOfMetal]

Originally Posted by leonardo7

Also, if the hardware is different, makes you wonder about the grades of body wood thats underneath all that paint.

Same thing that's underneath the paint of any Cort made guitar.

Cort is the world's largest guitar maker by a significant margin, and do work for just about all the guitars coming out of Korea and Indonesia.

[Prime]

Bad casting... I friggin hate die cast.

[Customisbetter]

Max, I know this is slightly OT, but am I correct in thinking that Agile, Epiphone, and Schecter are owned by another entity other than Cort?

[MaxOfMetal]

Originally Posted by Customisbetter

Max, I know this is slightly OT, but am I correct in thinking that Agile, Epiphone, and Schecter are owned by another entity other than Cort?

Schecter are made by Cort, that I know for sure. Agile looks to be made by Saein, one of the smaller South Korean OEMs. As for Epiphone, they're actually made at a Gibson owned facility in China.

It should be noted that Cort doesn't really "own" anything other than the facility and their own in-house Cort branded instruments. They're merely contracted out by ESP, Hoshino Gakki, etc. to make their guitars as OEM.

[Customisbetter]

Huh I guess I learn something new errahday

[guambomb832]

Originally Posted by Customisbetter

Huh I guess I learn something new errahday

Ditto But just spelled right!

[Barney]

OK. I'm gonna e-mail thomann tomorrow (I got it from them) and ask for a replacement part. ( As far as I can see we agree that it should be covered by the warranty.)
If they are willing to send me a new one, I'll try to convince them to give me the superior nut that's on the RG2228 'cause I do not wish to encounter this problem again.
Maybe they'll agree that it's better to use the superior one rather than changing the nut every month.. I got this guitar 2 weeks ago approx. so it's kinda ridiculous.

[Customisbetter]

I almost guarentee the rg8 nut won't fit.

[Barney]

It's is possible but I'm not sure.
The width of the neck at the nut on the RG differs by 1mm.
RGA is 55, RG is 54 wide.

UPDATE: I sent an e-mail to thomann about the problems.
(bridge screw ripping out the counterpart from the body + the nut problem)
I requested a replacement nut. (The RGA type)
The bridge will be fixed by my luthier friend on monday or tuesday.

[Barney]

A few thoughts on the Ibanez guitars and mine especially.

8 string guitars are quite new instruments.
(Let's forget about the custom handmade things like Conklins etc.. for now.)
Ibanez probably made a mistake and did not think about this being a problem.
(the screw is too short in the "bass" pad of the nut.)
I'm a bit disappointed, but I'm not mad at anyone. Shit happens.
RGA8s are fine guitars but there is some more work and tweaking required to make them really good. They'll probably come out with new improved 8string models in a few years and those will be better and more stable.

Back to the hardware and electronics: The difference in hardware, the EMGs and the obviously better construction of the japanese made RG2228s still do not justify the price difference IMO. You can buy 2 RGA8s from the price of one RG2228. I think the pricing on the RG is nonsense.

I still like this guitar, cause it's mine and it's sexy. The headstock looks much better on this then the RG.

[Koshchei]

I think that Ibanez cut costs too far - think CBS Fender or Norlin Gibson during the 1970s. Not sure if it's because of the horrendous global economy, or just profit whoring, but these things are normally tested before a product is green-lighted by management for release to the public. A guitar is supposed to last 100+ years, not 60 days.

[MaxOfMetal]

Originally Posted by Koshchei

I think that Ibanez cut costs too far - think CBS Fender or Norlin Gibson during the 1970s. Not sure if it's because of the horrendous global economy, or just profit whoring, but these things are normally tested before the product is green-lighted by management for release to the public. A guitar is supposed to last 100+ years, not 60 days.

It seems the Cort production is what is at fault, and Ibanez not working with them fast enough to fix the error. The cheap hardware material is an industry wide issue it seems.

All the things that seem to be going wrong with the RGAs has been tested heavily, and in practice functions wonderfully on the RG2228.

As for your comparisons, you have to remember, Fender and Gibson owned and operated their production facilities. Ibanez does not. They are simply a brand of Hoshino Gakki, which is primarily just a design and marketing firm. There have been numerous issues with Cortek's Indonesian facility as of late. Another factor is the distribution system which Hoshino Gakki uses, which leaves much of the QC outside of Cortek, in the hands of the distributor, which can vary greatly. Ibanez can't break their contract with Cort, as there are no other facilities equipped to handle the output.

[SpaceDock]

I have had no problems with my RG2228, it seems solid as it gets. I think many of the bridge post problems can be the fault of people adjusting the bridge posts without loosening the back post and so it gets too much stress and pulls out. This problem with the nut seems to be from over torquing the nut screws. The nut does not need to be set so tight that it could break any metal. I have owned well over 20 locking bridge guitars and I have never stripped a single part or cross treaded anything. Respect your guitars and the limitations of their components. Setting up solid does not mean cranking down the screws.

Just my 2 cents

[Koshchei]

I agree with you to a point. Cort is contracted by the parent company to produce x number of an item at a particular price point y.

Unless Ibanez simply said "make these as cheap as you possibly can, in order to compete with Agile, who is eating our breakfast in the 8 string market", there would have been a lot of back and forth during product development to strike a balance between cost, reliability, and quality.

While Cort did manufacture these turds, it was still Ibanez management who green-lighted the instruments for release, so responsibility still lies with them for this cock-up.

[MaxOfMetal]

Originally Posted by Koshchei

I agree with you to a point. Cort is contracted by the parent company to produce x number of an item at a particular price point y.

Unless Ibanez simply said "make these as cheap as you possibly can, in order to compete with Agile, who is eating our breakfast in the 8 string market", there would have been a lot of back and forth during product development to strike a balance between cost, reliability, and quality.

While Cort did manufacture these turds, it was still Ibanez management who green-lighted the instruments for release, so responsibility still lies with them for this cock-up.

I never said this was not in some way Ibanez's fault, they do hold much of the blame, namely because they chose to stick with the existing 8-string hardware and not simplifying it, I feel that was their critical error, and I love the Fixed Edge. A simply flatmount bridge and proper corian nut would have negated these issues (or issue, as there seems to be only one RGA8 with a broken nut, unless there are other substantiated reports).

While it did fall into Ibanez's hands to green-light the production, it's still Cort's responsibility to follow through with the production and to stick to a given level of quality, seeing as there are dozens of perfectly functional RGA8s it can only be assumed that the design itself is sound, can it not? As far as I know the prototypes of these guitars didn't have significant issues, but then again, no one but Ibanez knows that.

Like I said, Ibanez still hold the blame though.