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Unread 10-04-2010, 11:26 PM   #1
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This is getting ridiculous

youd think, Kahler, being one of the best bridge makers out there, would be able to make a fu(king bridge for an 8 string thats capable of keeping into-fu(king-nation
but evidently i got the crappiest one in the box when rondo built this guitar. its an intrepid 825 lizardburst, you can find the specs here: Agile Interceptor 825 MN Lizard Burst at RondoMusic.com

can anyone tell me why my incredibly good tuner tells me every string is in perfect tuning AND intonation and as soon as i plug into my amp EVERY string, not just one or two, EVERY SINGLE STRING ON THIS THING is not correct.

forgive me if im wrong, but EAEADGBE when strummed together, should produce some sort of HARMONY not godawful sound like 3 retarded geese trying to .....

any ideas?
or comments on why kahlers suck about 46 dicks?
or tips maybe?
anything at this point to keep me from smashing this thing into a thousand pieces would be great.
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Unread 10-04-2010, 11:30 PM   #2
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Firstly, calm down. It's ....ing guitar.

Firstly, did you check to make sure all the saddle screws are nice and tight?
Did you stretch the strings really good?
Have you tried locking the bridge into fixed mode?
When you first got the guitar did you fiddle with the trem pretty good to get the springs nice and broken in?
Did you try lubing the bearings and cams?
Did you make sure the "ball claws" () are holding the strings nice and good?
Also, what tuner are you using to set intonation?
Did you check the posts for "wobble"?

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Unread 10-04-2010, 11:37 PM   #3
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Quote:
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Firstly, calm down. It's ....ing guitar.
"ball claws" ()
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Unread 10-05-2010, 12:03 AM   #4
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I had a heck of a time dialing my my Kahler when I first got my 27" lizard burst. But eventually I got there. If you're setting the intonation and everything sounds good, it's probably not the intonation that is the culprit. If it is the intonation, you have one of the Interceptors that has the bridge located in the wrong spot. Fortunately you can use the adjustments screws on the back of the unit to move it closer or farther from the fretboard to help, and then adjust the saddles from there.
It sounds like you have a tuning issue, though, if the open strings tune up fine, but then go out. If that's the case, it's either the rollers binding or the strings slipping. You can check that by tuning it up, then playing the retarded geese ....ing song of your choice, then check the tuning again. If the string(s) are sharp, it means the roller is binding, and is likely too high. If the strings are slack either the ball claw that MoM is talking about doesn't have the ball seated all the way, or the windings on the string are slipping. If the latter is the case, then either use a different brand of strings or put a dot of solder on the windings ahead of the ball so that they can't slip and unwind.
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Unread 10-05-2010, 12:04 AM   #5
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i think you might of screwed up by getting the 25.5" scale. youre going to have a hell of a time tuning to F or even that E youre saying. Tosin uses an 80 at 27, so youd need like a 90.

youre never going to intonate without proper strings and scale. youd be better off tuning it like a 7 with a high a or g.

and i never knew they made intrepid 825s with a kahler.
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Unread 10-05-2010, 12:07 AM   #6
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i think you might of screwed up by getting the 25.5" scale. youre going to have a hell of a time tuning to F or even that E youre saying. Tosin uses an 80 at 27, so youd need like a 90.
Maybe, but this is an issue we all keep debating. Those that have a 25.5" say it can be done, so who knows. I have a 27" at F#, and I use a .072 or .074, depending. I'm fine with it. For reference I use a .068" at 28.625"
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Unread 10-05-2010, 12:15 AM   #7
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If it is the intonation, you have one of the Interceptors that has the bridge located in the wrong spot.
That is crazy, so much for quality assurance...
Anyways, did you check on the spring's tension? You might have to tight them up a little or perhaps loose' em. They are underneath the bridge, in case you are wondering, and yes, you will have to remove it from the body in order to proper set them.

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Unread 10-05-2010, 12:17 AM   #8
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i think you might of screwed up by getting the 25.5" scale. youre going to have a hell of a time tuning to F or even that E youre saying. Tosin uses an 80 at 27, so youd need like a 90.

youre never going to intonate without proper strings and scale. youd be better off tuning it like a 7 with a high a or g.

and i never knew they made intrepid 825s with a kahler.
At 25.5" a low E (the tuned down one we're talking about) will have 13.16lbs of tension, or a little more than a typical .009 1st string, using a .080 gauge string. Taking it up to a .090 will bring the tension to roughly 16.14lbs, or the tension of a .010 gauge string in E. As you can see, the difference is not that severe, and an .080 should work just fine.

Just because "artist X" uses "string gauge Y" doesn't mean a thing.

As far as intonation goes, I've gotten a low E to intonate (via a Peterson Strobe Tuner) on 25.5", 26.5", 27", 27.5", 28", 28.625", 30", and 32". Arguably the longer scales sound a bit better (they have the advantage of using a skinnier string with less fundamental and more overtone [more guitar like]).

Of course proper picking technique will come into play. The looser the string, the tighter your right hand and wrist will have to be. The looser strings are less forgiving, and the intonation will oscillate wildly if you strike them too hard. Don't confuse that oscillation (caused by rough technique) with inability to intonate.

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Unread 10-05-2010, 12:17 AM   #9
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I don't understand why they use this crazy design kahler, were the nice ones only produce for halo?

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Unread 10-05-2010, 12:20 AM   #10
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I don't understand why they use this crazy design kahler, were the nice ones only produce for halo?
The same Kahler design has been around for decades. If I remember correctly the post mounted design was first introduced to mount on Les Pauls and other arched top guitars.

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Unread 10-05-2010, 12:24 AM   #11
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This is the one I got from halo like about five or six years ago
[IMG] [/IMG]
as you can see not the same bridge...

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Unread 10-05-2010, 12:26 AM   #12
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Because that unit is the flatmount type, not the post mount type. Kahler has had both of these designs for decades. The only way they differ is how they attach to the guitar.

Post Mount:


Flat Mount:


Both are USA made, both have been around for a long time.

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Unread 10-05-2010, 12:30 AM   #13
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Oh, I see, yeah that is true.
but my question remains, were the flatmount bridges produce exclusively for halo? I don't remember seem any other brand with them, and I remember having a talk with Wayne back on the day and he told me something like he had something to do with convince kahler to have them built for halo. Back on that time Wayne was working for halo.. he has his own thing going on now, right?

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Unread 10-05-2010, 12:34 AM   #14
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Flatmount 8-string Kahlers have been around for awhile via Wammi World (Kahler's in-house dealer). Even if, at first, the 8-string flatmounts were Halo exclusives, they had 6-string and 7-string versions available for quite some time.

Here's an early 80's Carvin with Kahler flatmount trem:


Though, it's worth mentioning Kahler will make a trem with however many string you want, if you have the $$$.

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Unread 10-05-2010, 12:56 AM   #15
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Unread 10-05-2010, 01:17 AM   #16
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Quote:
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Oh, I see, yeah that is true.
but my question remains, were the flatmount bridges produce exclusively for halo? I don't remember seem any other brand with them, and I remember having a talk with Wayne back on the day and he told me something like he had something to do with convince kahler to have them built for halo. Back on that time Wayne was working for halo.. he has his own thing going on now, right?
I'm not sure I would trust what Waylon said. He's not known for his honesty. That being said, you might be mixing this up with the 10 string that Halo has - with a Kahler. That is a special order thing. Flat mount Kahlers were most definitely not produced exclusively, or because of, Halo.
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Unread 10-05-2010, 01:45 AM   #17
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well thank all of you guys for your input!!
i really didnt expect that much help lol
and i was totally exaggerating the smashing it thing.
i couldnt do that. my MOTHER would choke me if i smashed 700$ worth of guitar.
to answer the question i remember, im pretty sure i broke them in pretty well, especially by now, i cant really tell what gauge these strings are, whatever rondo put on...
im definitely gunna try some thicker strings, but do you guys think i could keep it light on the high end and fatter strings on the low end?
keep in mind this is my first 8 string, only had 6 and 7 before this lol so im still not so sure about all the specifics of having this thing yet, but you guys have ALL really helped so i cant thank you enough for that.

on a lighter note, i spent a few hours messing with it and i managed to get it tuned pretty decently with a bit of patience, slow deep breaths and a fat shot of absinthe.
lolol

if youve got anymore advice, lay it on me!!
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Unread 10-05-2010, 09:23 AM   #18
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i really didnt expect that much help lol
and i was totally exaggerating the smashing it thing.
i couldnt do that. my MOTHER would choke me if i smashed 700$ worth of guitar.

...

on a lighter note, i spent a few hours messing with it
and i managed to get it tuned pretty decently with a bit of patience, slow deep breaths and a fat shot of absinthe.
lolol
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Unread 10-05-2010, 09:27 AM   #19
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well thank all of you guys for your input!!
i really didnt expect that much help lol
and i was totally exaggerating the smashing it thing.
i couldnt do that. my MOTHER would choke me if i smashed 700$ worth of guitar.
to answer the question i remember, im pretty sure i broke them in pretty well, especially by now, i cant really tell what gauge these strings are, whatever rondo put on...
im definitely gunna try some thicker strings, but do you guys think i could keep it light on the high end and fatter strings on the low end?
keep in mind this is my first 8 string, only had 6 and 7 before this lol so im still not so sure about all the specifics of having this thing yet, but you guys have ALL really helped so i cant thank you enough for that.

on a lighter note, i spent a few hours messing with it and i managed to get it tuned pretty decently with a bit of patience, slow deep breaths and a fat shot of absinthe.
lolol

if youve got anymore advice, lay it on me!!
Replace those stock strings stat!!!

Every Agile I've received has had absolute garbage strings on them.

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Unread 10-05-2010, 09:55 AM   #20
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Maybe, but this is an issue we all keep debating. Those that have a 25.5" say it can be done, so who knows. I have a 27" at F#, and I use a .072 or .074, depending. I'm fine with it. For reference I use a .068" at 28.625"

damn, i use a 74 for F at 28.6, and even an 80 somtimes.

+1 to max too. I almost despised my agile with the strings that came on it.
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Unread 10-05-2010, 10:16 AM   #21
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Glad you also noticed that. As soon as I saw the words "fat shot of absinthe," I thought something was up

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Unread 10-05-2010, 11:04 AM   #22
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Ball claws. HAHAHAHAHAHA

I hate trems.

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Unread 10-05-2010, 11:09 AM   #23
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You're going to have the same issue regardless of bridge... The problem with intonation is you're just getting the strings kind of close to sounding in tune. The more strings you throw in, and the more different frets you throw in, the more out of tune it's going to sound, as each fret on each string is NOT going to be perfectly intonated. Unless you go true temperment(with squiggly frets and such) you're not going to sound like a piano hitting those same notes... Even Buzz Feiten and Earvana aren't going to be perfect, they're just different solutions to the intonation problem, and it's a problem with all fretted instruments.
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Unread 10-05-2010, 11:47 AM   #24
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yeah i recently heard about those squiggly frets, thats actually a pretty cool idea. i think it would look pretty cool too actually XD

and for you jokers up there, absinthe makes EVERYTHING sound better lol
especially when its homebrewed ;D

and i slept like a ROCK last night so HA

so everyone has pretty much been throwing random string gauges, anyone have a suggestion as to what gauge strings i should get all the way across for good tension with this 25.5 in EAEADGBE?
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Unread 10-05-2010, 11:55 AM   #25
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why don't you first make sure the guitar is properly intonated, or can be properly intonated and that the studs aren't in the wrong place, because if you don't have enough range to adjust the bridge proper you should get kurt to replace the guitar for you
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