Ideal Fan scale length, production range in design.

[gjkung]

I'm designing a model of fanned fret 7/8 strings and I need some input on what's the ideal fan.

My current thoughts are with 28.3-26.7inch or thereabouts, which corresponds to the 1st fret to 2nd fret on the 30inch scale length.

Please comment and state your preference for the following:
1. Bass side scale length - Treble side scale length
2. "straight-fret" which fret to be the perpendicular to the strings as a normal guitar.
3. The tuning which you'd be using that requires this scale length

Of course, do include your reasons for preference!

[dirgesong]

the ideal depends on the desired tension for the instrument, for instance a 7 string guitar can be from 25.5 to 27 or 27.5 so the low B will have good tension for and 8 would be better something like 27.5 to 30 that would be great, also the strings are a big factor here in the 7 starting with 9's but in the 8 with 8's string set..

just my 2 cents .. try to drop the price to have costumers and make a good name!

[gjkung]

oops I actually I thought I removed the part about the price out, but I must have forgotten.

It's done now, I want to hear the opinions of everyone regardless of their budget.



I understand the fan varies for requirement, hence I'm asking here. I want to know what's the fan that most people prefer.

Thanks for the input so far!

[daniboy]

personally, 27" to 25" with the 15th fret being perpendicular on a 7. no experience on a 8 though. sorry.

[Durero]

The question is pretty meaningless to me without stating what tuning you're using.

String spacing and number of strings also affects the design significantly.

[gjkung]

I cannot determine the tuning for you guys. I'm gathering information on what you guys need.

Just let me know what scale length you're interested in, the tuning is up to you.

I've edited the first post to make it clear.

[Cheesebuiscut]

Your going to get 100 different answers on this forum.

I would choose a couple, one for extremely low tunings one for median and one for tuning up.

Some people will want 22.75-25.5, others 27-30" all depends on person.

I have a 25.5-27" and I'm completely satisfied with it, if anything the high end could be a bit shorter because the guitar is very bright (neck through maple)

[gjkung]

Thanks! What tuning are you using? Also which is your perpendicular fret?

A 100 different answers is exactly what I want.

Keep them coming!

[Stealthdjentstic]

Originally Posted by gjkung

I'm designing a model of fanned fret 7/8 strings and I need some input on what's the ideal fan.

My current thoughts are with 28.3-26.7inch or thereabouts, which corresponds to the 1st fret to 2nd fret on the 30inch scale length.

Please comment and state your preference for the following:
1. Bass side scale length - Treble side scale length
2. "straight-fret" which fret to be the perpendicular to the strings as a normal guitar.
3. The tuning which you'd be using that requires this scale length

Of course, do include your reasons for preference!

I would go 27.5-25.5 only because I really wouldn't plan on going lower than E. Perpendicular fret at the 12th fret. It would just be standard with a low E.

[troyguitar]

22-26" AEADGCEA if I were to order or build a fanned 8.

[gjkung]

what about your perpendicular fret?

[Cheesebuiscut]

I believe my perpendicular fret is 8. I've tuned the guitar a few different ways (is a 7 string) the longest time in C# standard with a high F# and currently C# standard with a low G#. maple / walnut neckthrough, mahogany wings rosewood board.


Found the guitar a bit too bright for the high string, if I had control over that I probably would have went 26.75-25.25" or possibly a bit shorter. The low C#2 sounds perfect on the 26.75 scale its on now and all the other strings respectively, but when it moved positions and got bumped up another .25" each it was a tad too bright / snappy across the range of the guitar. and I like a very bright tone.

So 25.5-27" definitely works when tuning lower I found, perpendicular fret always seems best around 7th-to-9th fret, anywhere else and people have complained about the fans being too extreme on either end.

If you move it any lower the bridge / high frets end up at a very steep angle, if you put it any higher the low frets end up at an uncomfortable angle for people to play on.

7-to-9 has seems to work out best, absolutely no issue with mine at the 8th fret.

If you want to keep the ideal fan for a range of people I would try to stay as close to 25.5-27" as possible, you frequently see people who owned 28" and 30" 8 strings switching over to 27" 8 strings just because the play-ability just isn't there with the 30"ers.

not to say that people can't and don't make use of the longer scales frequently, but short of making several different models if you want to cater to more people I'd not go that route.

[gjkung]

Thanks for the writeup cheesebuiscut.

Would you think the 27" would handle a low F#? I find the strings to respond really well at 30" but at 27 it's pushing the limit of what is good for the two lower strings if you tune downwards.

Playability seems to be the priority here, true?

[Stealthdjentstic]

Originally Posted by gjkung

Thanks for the writeup cheesebuiscut.

Would you think the 27" would handle a low F#? I find the strings to respond really well at 30" but at 27 it's pushing the limit of what is good for the two lower strings if you tune downwards.

Playability seems to be the priority here, true?

27" is fine for an F#, I have a ton of hours played on my friends 2228 and its 27" scale and sounds great.

[Cheesebuiscut]

^This, for instance tosin abasi has been using a 2228 over his 30" custom for play-ability reasons and his low string is down in E and no issues. Javier from that same band also switched from a 30" 8 string to a rga2228 which is 27".

My guitars low end is G# which is only a whole step above F# and I drop it to F# regularly, no issues. You can do F# on a 25.5" scale albeit a bit dark / bassy but it definitely works, you really don't NEED much more clarity than what 27" will give you.

Again my guitars a 7 string though so if you were building an 8 I would probably continue the trend of the scale moving .25" per string so it would be 25.5-27.25" as the transition across strings seems very natural / comfy and isn't too extreme on either end.

Really how long you need it for what note is still all personal preference but you definitely don't NEED anything beyond 27" for going as low as E which is probably as low as anyone will want to go.

[gjkung]

Really appreciate you guys taking the time to explain your preferences here.

Meanwhile I did some work on the design of the fan placement.


The headstock is pretty ugly, I know, it's just a placeholder.

The body is my version of a super strat design, yet another placeholder.

[TemjinStrife]

I'm weird, but I'd prefer a 24.5-26.5" fan.

[Cheesebuiscut]

Whatever you do with the headstock try to shoot for straight string pull on all strings. Is a huge + to most people.

[MF_Kitten]

27.5" - 25" is the only fan i have tried, but it was much more apparent than i would have thought. When looking straight down the fretboard it is easy to mistake which of the frets your fingers are on, and you kinda have to trace the fret over to the other side to see which it is. That's a 2.5" fan overall, and i would recommend much less. I do suspect it's easier to play with your eyes closed, or while not looking at the fretboard, but that's not always possible.

Perpendicular fret should be either in the middle of the fretboard or closer to the bridge i think. The bridge is harder to adjust to than the nut when it's angled, and the smaller spacings between each fret makes it much harder to see where you are on the fretboard when they are angled. So overall it's easier to sacrifice the lower frets and the nut than the bridge and higher frets.

So i'd say a 1", maybe 1.5" fan overall for an 8 string, depending on use obviously, i am going for an overall comfort level here, that will work for most people. Perpendicular fret would then be something like the 7th or upward.

[gjkung]

Originally Posted by Cheesebuiscut

Whatever you do with the headstock try to shoot for straight string pull on all strings. Is a huge + to most people.

, this is just a dummy headstock now.


MF_Kitten: got it.

[TemjinStrife]

I personally like the perpendicular fret around 7th fret myself. But I'm not much of a widdly widdly kind of guy

[gjkung]

7th fret seems to be where this is headed.

[Tom Drinkwater]

I use a 27"-25.5" scale length with a perpindicular 7th fret on my production 8 strings with standard F# tuning. I think that the perpindicular 7th fret gives you less problems with chording in the first few position than the 12th fret that I have done in the past. I like the 28.3-26.7 fan that is mentioned in the first post. That really sounds like a winner on an 8 string given the low F# and B.

[gjkung]

yea, I'm glad someone is agreeing with that scale length.

I just installed an M7 in an RG1077XL, not sure if I got the model right. It was running on .070s at 27" and it came out a very useable sound, tight and playable when tuned to low G. But it was a different sound from what I got on a 30" with a Miracle Man tuned to F#.

Which leads me to think about offering two different scale length options:
27"-25.5" (26.986" -25.471") 7th perpendicular
28.6"-27" (28.59"-26.986") 8th perpendicular

Those are values taken from the 3rd, 4th and 5th fret of a 34" bass scale.

The two options will be exactly 1 fret away from each other, which will allow me to offer them without as much extra work as two completely different scale lengths.

I think that should work for more people yea?

[Cheesebuiscut]

Sounds good.

You could also have a shorter one which would be the next fret up for people wanting to tune to high A. Would cover all your bases that way.