homepage   sevenstring guitars   sevenstring registry   photo gallery   subscription   spy 
Sevenstring.org - The Seven String Guitar Authority
Go Back   SevenString.org > Marketplace > Dealers & Group Buys
LIKE SS.org on Facebook FOLLOW SS.org on Twitter
  
Dealers & Group Buys Classifieds from dealers, and bulk-order discounts for ss.org members.

Like Tree321Likes

Reply
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 01-09-2012, 08:18 AM   #376
Shrederick
 
Fred the Shred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Posts: 6,335
Thanked: 129
Fred the Shred won't break the oath.Fred the Shred won't break the oath.Fred the Shred won't break the oath.Fred the Shred won't break the oath.Fred the Shred won't break the oath.Fred the Shred won't break the oath.Fred the Shred won't break the oath.Fred the Shred won't break the oath.Fred the Shred won't break the oath.Fred the Shred won't break the oath.Fred the Shred won't break the oath.Fred the Shred won't break the oath.Fred the Shred won't break the oath.
Feedback Score: 20 reviews
Hannes has no problem with it as far as I know. Schaller, on the other hand, were even threatening lawsuits for using their components on the fanned protos (which weren't intended for commercial use) using the Hannes template, so there's your bottleneck - they are attempting to preserve their exclusivity, basically.

Buy my album, will you? My store | CDBaby
FredBrum.com
Happily endorsed by Jaden Rose Guitars, Bare Knuckle Pickups, Gruv Gear, Sik Pik Picks, PHD Picks and Spectraflex cables
Fred the Shred is online now   Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Seven String

Beitrag Sponsored Links

__________________
This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members.
Register your free account today and become a member on SevenString.org
   
Unread 01-09-2012, 08:53 AM   #377
Washing your dishes.
 
Malkav's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cape Town, S.A
Posts: 1,159
Thanked: 5
Malkav is just really niceMalkav is just really nice
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred the Shred View Post
Hannes has no problem with it as far as I know. Schaller, on the other hand, were even threatening lawsuits for using their components on the fanned protos (which weren't intended for commercial use) using the Hannes template, so there's your bottleneck - they are attempting to preserve their exclusivity, basically.
Thank you for a useful answer Fred I get that Schaller would want to protect their exclusivity but then why not manufacture a seven string or eight string version on demand or in batch runs or something? Seems strange to me that they would happily turn down the extra possible income.

@Thrashmanzac - I think you miss the point of what I'm saying, it's lovely that he's allowed Darren to use his bridges/patent but it's the part where anyone looking to upgrade to a Hannes bridge as an aftermarket thing cannot buy one from Decibel or Schaller that I find a little silly. Especially considering that Schaller do a 6 string one already as an available aftermarket spare, ultimately it's discrimination and I won't stand for it
Malkav is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-09-2012, 09:12 AM   #378
Shrederick
 
Fred the Shred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Posts: 6,335
Thanked: 129
Fred the Shred won't break the oath.Fred the Shred won't break the oath.Fred the Shred won't break the oath.Fred the Shred won't break the oath.Fred the Shred won't break the oath.Fred the Shred won't break the oath.Fred the Shred won't break the oath.Fred the Shred won't break the oath.Fred the Shred won't break the oath.Fred the Shred won't break the oath.Fred the Shred won't break the oath.Fred the Shred won't break the oath.Fred the Shred won't break the oath.
Feedback Score: 20 reviews
Trust me on this: the email exchange was nothing short of surreal, and enough to abandon the idea of a tweaked prototype which would be proposed for licensing (even though not for direct sale, due to the way commercial rights are handled).

The current bridge is nothing short of great, mind you, but the plan was to accommodate Hannes fans with a fanned fret alternative should they want one on the JR fanned fret range. Sometimes, you just can't get what you want.

Buy my album, will you? My store | CDBaby
FredBrum.com
Happily endorsed by Jaden Rose Guitars, Bare Knuckle Pickups, Gruv Gear, Sik Pik Picks, PHD Picks and Spectraflex cables
Fred the Shred is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-09-2012, 04:07 PM   #379
Decibel Guitars
 
darren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Greater Toronto Area, Canada
Posts: 12,233
Thanked: 78
darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.
Feedback Score: 9 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by canuck brian View Post
It's probably more Schaller bringing down the hammer as they're licensing the product.
This is exactly it. Roland Hannes is a designer, not a manufacturer, and he'd love to see his bridge more widely used. But I assume his design is under exclusive license to Schaller, so they likely call the shots.

I wonder if there are any legal grounds for a lawsuit. If the user buys a Schaller bridge at retail and designs their own aftermarket parts to fit their needs, no patents or licensing agreements have been broken. Schaller still gets the retail price for the whole bridge, even though half of it goes in the garbage.
elq and Solodini like this.
darren is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-10-2012, 05:13 PM   #380
Luthier
 
Jaden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cambridge - UK
Posts: 159
Thanked: 18
Jaden is just really niceJaden is just really nice
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by darren View Post
This is exactly it. Roland Hannes is a designer, not a manufacturer, and he'd love to see his bridge more widely used. But I assume his design is under exclusive license to Schaller, so they likely call the shots.

I wonder if there are any legal grounds for a lawsuit. If the user buys a Schaller bridge at retail and designs their own aftermarket parts to fit their needs, no patents or licensing agreements have been broken. Schaller still gets the retail price for the whole bridge, even though half of it goes in the garbage.
pretty sure that Schaller wouldnt threaten to sue an individual who modded a bridge in that way but they did make it clear to [ahem, someone I know very, very well indeed] that they would sue/confiscate guitars from shows etc if they saw a similar bridge on a guitar available for sale, regardless of the scales or amount of strings adopted.

what beats me is that they could get some kudos from the whole ERG market doing new and innovative (even though Schaller claim to be "the innovators") stuff with the Hannes format.

what also beats me is that what are they going to sue for ? loss of revenue / damages / patent infringement ? whatever it would be, Darren and anyone else who has done any testing with that format would only be raising the profile of the bridge and bringing it to a new customer so.... ? whatever..

they dont have any plans to release a multiscale variant, or a 7 / 8 string variant but they dont want anyone else to do so either...

oh well, the graphtech saddles we have the 8 string "Fanned Fred" are fantastic.

ROCK !
Jaden is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-10-2012, 05:13 PM   #381
Luthier
 
Jaden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cambridge - UK
Posts: 159
Thanked: 18
Jaden is just really niceJaden is just really nice
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
bugger, double post.
Jaden is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-10-2012, 05:18 PM   #382
Power Metal Cellist
 
TemjinStrife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Manhattan, NY
Posts: 4,860
Thanked: 33
TemjinStrife is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/TemjinStrife is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/TemjinStrife is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/TemjinStrife is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/TemjinStrife is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/TemjinStrife is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/TemjinStrife is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/
Feedback Score: 7 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkav View Post
Thank you for a useful answer Fred I get that Schaller would want to protect their exclusivity but then why not manufacture a seven string or eight string version on demand or in batch runs or something? Seems strange to me that they would happily turn down the extra possible income.
Because it's expensive to bring even one new product to market, and they would have to have the bridges made in mass quantities in order to make it cost effective. Schaller doesn't want to sit on two and a half thousand Hannes 7 and 8 bridges taking up space and costs.
TemjinStrife is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-10-2012, 11:13 PM   #383
SS.org Regular
 
0 Xero 0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 633
Thanked: 7
0 Xero 0 is a jewel in the rough
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
I'm loving the builds so far, Darren. Keep up the good work and have fun at namm

Would you tell Picasso to sell his guitars?
0 Xero 0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-11-2012, 02:00 AM   #384
Washing your dishes.
 
Malkav's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cape Town, S.A
Posts: 1,159
Thanked: 5
Malkav is just really niceMalkav is just really nice
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by TemjinStrife View Post
Because it's expensive to bring even one new product to market, and they would have to have the bridges made in mass quantities in order to make it cost effective. Schaller doesn't want to sit on two and a half thousand Hannes 7 and 8 bridges taking up space and costs.
That's why I said they could do batch runs, from a machining point of view all that would have to really change to do a 7 string hannes at least is to manufacture a different back piece, the saddles aren't going to be different. If Hipshot manage to find it cost effective enough to do RG7321 replacement bridges in batch runs then there's no reason why the Schaller Hannes bridge couldn't operate on the same system.

As Jaden stated above Schaller are just being difficult with regards to the manufacture of ERG bridges, there's no logical reason that they wouldn't offer it or allow another manufacturer to make an adaptation of it, especially in Jaden's case where he was actually buying normal Hannes bridges from Schaller and then bastardising them.

Anyway this is unfortunately not something that'll be resolved over an internet forum, hopefully Schaller will lighten up or release the Hannes in 7 & 8 string formats eventually.

Either way cheers to Jaden and Darren! Absolutely love the work you guys put out, I hope for many more advances of an awesome nature in your futures
Solodini likes this.
Malkav is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-11-2012, 03:37 PM   #385
Power Metal Cellist
 
TemjinStrife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Manhattan, NY
Posts: 4,860
Thanked: 33
TemjinStrife is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/TemjinStrife is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/TemjinStrife is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/TemjinStrife is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/TemjinStrife is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/TemjinStrife is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/TemjinStrife is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/
Feedback Score: 7 reviews
I may be wrong, but I am under the impression that Hipshot and Schaller are very different business models, with very different methods of production. If Schaller keeps things profitable by doing runs of thousands at a time, then stopping and reprogramming the machines to do a "batch run" of backpieces and string-thru plates for the bridge would cost them a lot of time and money.

Hipshot is somewhat of a smaller operation.
TemjinStrife is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-11-2012, 06:30 PM   #386
Of Blood and Sawdust
 
JaeSwift's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Badhoevedorp, the Netherlands
Posts: 2,045
Thanked: 28
JaeSwift is a glorious beacon of lightJaeSwift is a glorious beacon of lightJaeSwift is a glorious beacon of light
Feedback Score: 8 reviews
From what I gather from this situation, Schaller wants you to prevent making more money behind their backs because the only way to get ERG versions of the Hannes would be through boutique luthiers instead of Schaller, even though they would get the bucks for selling you the 6 string bridge that you'de have to dismantle. Theoretically speaking you could make quite a bit more money than they would from you just buying the Hannes 6 string bridges.

It's ridiculous though. Saying that there wouldn't be a market for this is quite prepostorous seeing as how a LOT, and I mean a LOT of luthiers make or focus on ERG's these days as it's their way to compete with mass-manufactured guitars; for every 100 6 string Ibanez RG there's only 1 7/8/fan fretted guitar.
JaeSwift is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-11-2012, 08:35 PM   #387
BTFStan
 
BTFStan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Granite City, IL
Posts: 392
Thanked: 19
BTFStan is just really niceBTFStan is just really nice
Feedback Score: 11 reviews
want
BTFStan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-11-2012, 10:32 PM   #388
Decibel Guitars
 
darren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Greater Toronto Area, Canada
Posts: 12,233
Thanked: 78
darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.
Feedback Score: 9 reviews
Actually, the opposite is likely true. I have to buy two Hannes bridges from Schaller to make one 7-string bridge based off that design. I wouldn't be charging much markup (if any) to build one for my guitars. With the cost of machining and the parts, it's pretty much billed on a cost-recovery basis. I likely wouldn't be making a dime in profits by making my own Hannes tailpieces, so I really can't figure out what Schaller's issue is.

History has typically not been kind to companies who try to squash aftermarket innovation on a product people are devoted to. Can you imagine an automotive industry without a healthy aftermarket parts industry? Heck, even Floyd Rose seems to be okay with Floyd Upgrades embracing and extending their platform, and Floyd has a long history of defending his patent rights.
darren is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-12-2012, 04:52 AM   #389
Of Blood and Sawdust
 
JaeSwift's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Badhoevedorp, the Netherlands
Posts: 2,045
Thanked: 28
JaeSwift is a glorious beacon of lightJaeSwift is a glorious beacon of lightJaeSwift is a glorious beacon of light
Feedback Score: 8 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by darren View Post
Actually, the opposite is likely true. I have to buy two Hannes bridges from Schaller to make one 7-string bridge based off that design. I wouldn't be charging much markup (if any) to build one for my guitars. With the cost of machining and the parts, it's pretty much billed on a cost-recovery basis. I likely wouldn't be making a dime in profits by making my own Hannes tailpieces, so I really can't figure out what Schaller's issue is.

History has typically not been kind to companies who try to squash aftermarket innovation on a product people are devoted to. Can you imagine an automotive industry without a healthy aftermarket parts industry? Heck, even Floyd Rose seems to be okay with Floyd Upgrades embracing and extending their platform, and Floyd has a long history of defending his patent rights.
In that case, Schaller are just being douchebags. Hope this bites them in the ass.
scherzo1928 likes this.
JaeSwift is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-13-2012, 03:29 AM   #390
Luthier
 
Jaden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cambridge - UK
Posts: 159
Thanked: 18
Jaden is just really niceJaden is just really nice
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by darren View Post
Actually, the opposite is likely true. I have to buy two Hannes bridges from Schaller to make one 7-string bridge based off that design. I wouldn't be charging much markup (if any) to build one for my guitars. With the cost of machining and the parts, it's pretty much billed on a cost-recovery basis. I likely wouldn't be making a dime in profits by making my own Hannes tailpieces, so I really can't figure out what Schaller's issue is.

History has typically not been kind to companies who try to squash aftermarket innovation on a product people are devoted to. Can you imagine an automotive industry without a healthy aftermarket parts industry? Heck, even Floyd Rose seems to be okay with Floyd Upgrades embracing and extending their platform, and Floyd has a long history of defending his patent rights.
this, exactly.. see you at NAMM Darren
Jaden is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-13-2012, 08:35 AM   #391
Decibel Guitars
 
darren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Greater Toronto Area, Canada
Posts: 12,233
Thanked: 78
darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.
Feedback Score: 9 reviews
Looking forward to it, Jaden!
darren is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-13-2012, 05:55 PM   #392
Of Blood and Sawdust
 
JaeSwift's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Badhoevedorp, the Netherlands
Posts: 2,045
Thanked: 28
JaeSwift is a glorious beacon of lightJaeSwift is a glorious beacon of lightJaeSwift is a glorious beacon of light
Feedback Score: 8 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by darren View Post
Looking forward to it, Jaden!
May I suggest that you, Jaden and other luthiers (I'm guessing there's more than just you two that share the same opinion) band together and confront Schaller at NAMM?
JaeSwift is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-14-2012, 06:12 AM   #393
MORE RESTS!
 
Solodini's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: East Lothian, Scotland.
Posts: 2,735
Thanked: 25
Solodini is a glorious beacon of lightSolodini is a glorious beacon of lightSolodini is a glorious beacon of light
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
With a baseball bat, a chain and a length of pipe?


Check out my book: "Playing Guitar Musically: A Guide to Creativity on Guitar & Bass"
Buy the full book here. eBook - Ģ5. Physical copies also available.
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/4063031-post14.html
PM me if you want to discuss it or just fancy a chat.

I also give lessons over Skype, Bandhappy and within the Lothians.
Solodini is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-14-2012, 08:56 AM   #394
Decibel Guitars
 
darren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Greater Toronto Area, Canada
Posts: 12,233
Thanked: 78
darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.
Feedback Score: 9 reviews
dB2: Grain-enhancing dye on figured South American mahogany with light water-based poly and beeswax final polish. Ready for electronics, final assembly and detailing!



dB3: Fire-blackened edges, dyed raw ash with light water-based poly and beeswax final polish. Ready for electronics, final assembly and detailing!

XEN, nikt, Durero and 13 others like this.
darren is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-14-2012, 09:04 AM   #395
SS.org Regular
 
kruneh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Norway
Posts: 595
Thanked: 5
kruneh is just really nicekruneh is just really nice
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Thatīs some sweet work there, Mr.

kruneh is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-16-2012, 12:27 PM   #396
SS.org Regular
 
AxeHappy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Guelph
Posts: 2,452
Thanked: 8
AxeHappy is a name known to allAxeHappy is a name known to allAxeHappy is a name known to allAxeHappy is a name known to all
Feedback Score: 4 reviews
Yeah...these only make me wish I hadn't waited until 50 something on the wait list!!!
AxeHappy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-16-2012, 06:13 PM   #397
Of Blood and Sawdust
 
JaeSwift's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Badhoevedorp, the Netherlands
Posts: 2,045
Thanked: 28
JaeSwift is a glorious beacon of lightJaeSwift is a glorious beacon of lightJaeSwift is a glorious beacon of light
Feedback Score: 8 reviews
Ye gods Darren, just when I thought the Javelin was the epitomy of design you come up with this!
JaeSwift is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-17-2012, 07:57 AM   #398
Murder Machine
 
Sepultorture's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Oshawa, ON, Canada
Posts: 4,817
Thanked: 38
Sepultorture is a glorious beacon of lightSepultorture is a glorious beacon of lightSepultorture is a glorious beacon of light
Feedback Score: 4 reviews
WOW Darren, just effing WOW

you are making playable art mate, love it
AxeHappy likes this.

BEARDS: They Instantly Turn Any Man Into A Badass, It's Like Having Machine Guns On Your Face
Sepultorture is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-18-2012, 01:18 AM   #399
Decibel Guitars
 
darren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Greater Toronto Area, Canada
Posts: 12,233
Thanked: 78
darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.darren deems you false, flexes, and cancels you.
Feedback Score: 9 reviews
XEN, Durero, kruneh and 6 others like this.
darren is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-18-2012, 09:17 AM   #400
Bowes Guitars
 
canuck brian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,063
Thanked: 46
canuck brian is the epitome of metal.canuck brian is the epitome of metal.canuck brian is the epitome of metal.canuck brian is the epitome of metal.canuck brian is the epitome of metal.canuck brian is the epitome of metal.canuck brian is the epitome of metal.canuck brian is the epitome of metal.canuck brian is the epitome of metal.
Feedback Score: 9 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by darren View Post
Tease. Post the rest!!!
canuck brian is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
amx, decibel, ergonomics, guitar porn, javelin, wood porn

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:25 PM.


Our Network: PRS Guitar Forum | Luthier Forum | SG Guitar Forum | Les Paul Forum | Marshall Amp Forum | Acoustic Guitar Forum

SS.org proudly supports St. Jude Children's Research Hospital

Copyright © 2004-2014, SevenString.org. All Rights Reserved.