[Brett89]

What is the difference between scales and modes?

Maybe I see it wrong, but are modes are same as major/minor scales?

For example: C major = C Ionian
C Dorian = A# Major

Thanks in advance!

[Durero]

Originally Posted by Brett89

What is the difference between scales and modes?

Maybe I see it wrong, but are modes are same as major/minor scales?

For example: C major = C Ionian
C Dorian = A# Major

Thanks in advance!

You're on the right track,

major = ionian

Dorian = note 2 to the next note 2 of the major scale

so C Dorian = note 2 of Bb major (not A#)

[Brett89]

Originally Posted by Durero

You're on the right track,

major = ionian

Dorian = note 2 to the next note 2 of the major scale

so C Dorian = note 2 of Bb major (not A#)

Thank you for the correction!

But then why they have different names? Why is major a scale and ionian a mode?

[playstopause]

Guitar Modes and Scales Explained Clearly

[Durero]

The modes of the major scale are very old names used in the Roman Catholic Church in the middle ages. They were used in Gregorian chant and pre-date chords and 3rds based harmony.

I find it easiest to think & visualize them this way:

Ionian mode = 1 2 34 5 6 71 (= Major Scale)
Dorian mode = 2 34 5 6 71 2
Phrygian mode = 34 5 6 71 2 3
Lydian mode = 4 5 6 71 2 34
Mixolydian mode = 5 6 71 2 34 5
Aeolian mode = 6 71 2 34 5 6 (= Natural Minor Scale)
Locrian mode = 71 2 34 5 6 7

note 34 and 71 are always 1 fret apart, all the others are 2 frets apart

[MetalSir]

Originally Posted by Durero

The modes of the major scale are very old names used in the Roman Catholic Church in the middle ages.

mmmm.. they come from greek and them Harmoniai (mmm.. i havent the greek letters on my keyboards).. eolian, phrigian, dorian an so on are names of the the old greek (ellenic) population..

greek based them musical sistem on this modes (that is the letteral translation of the word Harmoniai).
Harmoniai or mood correspond to a particular scale, but a lot of historians tell us that each Harmoniai included rhythms, traditional melody, way of execution, etc..

so each Harmoniai or mood was the way to use only one word to identify perfectly the nature of the music of dorians population, phrigian, eolian, etc.. =)

each Harmoniai for greek has the power of generating Ethos, that is a strong effect on human mind and body.
for ex, dorian uses an istrument called Lyra that, for them, determined in mind composure and moderation..

=D

eheh.. this is the only part of "occidental music story" that i studied really with pleasure.. =) i love greek story and mythology..




ps: i search it on my books ( i can't remeger this..), romans with gregorian music imported some greek moods.. (dorian, phrigian, lidian and mixolidian) and made 8 main different moods called "The 8th Ecclesiastic Moods" that were (in latin):

1.protus autentic
2.protus plagale
3.deuterus autentic
4.deuterus plagale
5.tritus autentic
6.tritus plagale
7.tetrardus autentic
8.tetrardus plagale

[amonb]

Can we get this thread stickied? It is awesome!

[BCrowell]

While it's certainly true that the same notes are shared between different modes, (such as G-Major/Ionian, A Dorian, C Lydian) the tonal CENTER compared to the defining intervals is what's important when you speak of modes.

What makes the sound of a Mode, is the intervals of the notes from the root. Take E Lydian for example...the defining interval that gives the Lydian mode it's sound is the #4th. Instead of being an A natural, it's an A#. Play the E root, and play the A# at the same time. Then play the A natural. Hear the difference?

Bottom line, don't view modes as scales per say, but rather how each one sounds due to the changed intervals compared to the root.

For me, I always remember all mode defining intervals, some are based from the minor (aeolian) scale, and some major (ionian):

Major Based:
Lydian = #4
Mixolydian = b7
Mel. Minor = b3

Minor Based:
Dorian = #6
Phrygian =b2
Locrian = b2b5
Harmonic Minor = #7

So because I now modes from this point of view I can QUICKLY adjust to onstage commands. Heck just yesterday I was helping cover a tune and the writer said "yeah it's a mid tempo rocker in A Lydian". Well, I just took the A major scale, raised the 4th scale note (#4), and whoalla...I'm kickin' it like a pro.

[shadowgenesis]

Originally Posted by MetalSir

mmmm.. they come from greek and them Harmoniai (mmm.. i havent the greek letters on my keyboards).. eolian, phrigian, dorian an so on are names of the the old greek (ellenic) population..

greek based them musical sistem on this modes (that is the letteral translation of the word Harmoniai).
Harmoniai or mood correspond to a particular scale, but a lot of historians tell us that each Harmoniai included rhythms, traditional melody, way of execution, etc..

so each Harmoniai or mood was the way to use only one word to identify perfectly the nature of the music of dorians population, phrigian, eolian, etc.. =)

each Harmoniai for greek has the power of generating Ethos, that is a strong effect on human mind and body.
for ex, dorian uses an istrument called Lyra that, for them, determined in mind composure and moderation..

=D

eheh.. this is the only part of "occidental music story" that i studied really with pleasure.. =) i love greek story and mythology..




ps: i search it on my books ( i can't remeger this..), romans with gregorian music imported some greek moods.. (dorian, phrigian, lidian and mixolidian) and made 8 main different moods called "The 8th Ecclesiastic Moods" that were (in latin):

1.protus autentic
2.protus plagale
3.deuterus autentic
4.deuterus plagale
5.tritus autentic
6.tritus plagale
7.tetrardus autentic
8.tetrardus plagale

I love it when people know their shit. You are the first person i've encountered who knew that the modes came from the name of ancient population - though I was not really aware it was Greek. I thought all the named groups predated Greek culture... But that's 10th grade history i'm looking back on. It's a blur

[MetalSir]

Originally Posted by shadowgenesis

I love it when people know their shit. You are the first person i've encountered who knew that the modes came from the name of ancient population - though I was not really aware it was Greek. I thought all the named groups predated Greek culture... But that's 10th grade history i'm looking back on. It's a blur

you are tellin'me that i wrote something interesting for you or not? =)
sorry but i can't translate some contruction =(

i simply studied it in my laurea degree course.. =) is not too strange to study music's strory.. i studied an entire book about greek music concept, scales, moods and so on.. if you are interested in viewing the original form of greek modes or the original form of The 8th Ecclesiastic Moods, just tell me and i'll post here the tabs.. but they are really not playable, except for you have at home a microtonal strument!

ps: i have a bad english.. to write that post on greeks i spent 30 minuts searchin' the words on my dictionary..