[TomAwesome]

I'd imagine the bass plays an octave under them down to about Bb and then plays in unison with them for the low F type stuff.

The Dark Lord is 35" I think.

[Dwellingers]

Originally Posted by TomAwesome

I'd imagine the bass plays an octave under them down to about Bb and then plays in unison with them for the low F type stuff.

The Dark Lord is 35" I think.

Thats what i thought also - some confusing post in here now:S

[Lynk]

I'm fairly certain the the bassist uses a regular 5 string, drops the B down to Bb to play an octave lower than the guitars when they play older stuff, but for the newer stuff where the guitarists drop to F, the bassist tunes his E string up half a step to F so they play in the same octave in those songs.
If that makes any sense, haha.

Hope this helped.

[angus]

A 34" scale versus a 35" scale is NOT going to be what makes a difference between a nice B string, and definitely not for a nice F#. Anyone who tells you otherwise is full of crap. Add a bunch of inches and it makes a difference, but between 34"/35", the scale length will not be the deciding factor.

Originally Posted by Crucified

warwick also make any of their models custom to 35" IIRC. also the dark lord is at 35 stock tuned to f#. great sounding and playing bass.

I couldn't disagree more- I've played 2 and they both had shitty F#'s and average B's. It's definitely a bass marketed to guitar players, if that makes sense.

To the OP, if you want to play in F an octave below the guitars, a good bass is not going to be your primary problem...amplification and sound reproduction will be. Make that string sound strong and clear at volume, espeically relative to the other strings, is a huge huge problem. You could buy a $6000 bass will an F# that's clear as a bell and sound like crap on stage because your amp/cab setup can't handle it (which is usually the case). I would focus on that more than the bass.

[swayman]

Originally Posted by angus

A 34" scale versus a 35" scale is NOT going to be what makes a difference between a nice B string, and definitely not for a nice F#. Anyone who tells you otherwise is full of crap. Add a bunch of inches and it makes a difference, but between 34"/35", the scale length will not be the deciding factor.



I couldn't disagree more- I've played 2 and they both had shitty F#'s and average B's. It's definitely a bass marketed to guitar players, if that makes sense.

To the OP, if you want to play in F an octave below the guitars, a good bass is not going to be your primary problem...amplification and sound reproduction will be. Make that string sound strong and clear at volume, espeically relative to the other strings, is a huge huge problem. You could buy a $6000 bass will an F# that's clear as a bell and sound like crap on stage because your amp/cab setup can't handle it (which is usually the case). I would focus on that more than the bass.

Absolutely couldn't agree more with low F# being quite a problem, that is too get a good "sound". But tuning that low on a bass will be felt more than heard. Sound in that range is in a way irrelevant, it's deep rumble.

Obviously too getting a great tone, that low, is gonna be hard with a bass POD or something. You've got a much better chance of "hearing it" through a valve SVT rig.

[Desecrated]

Originally Posted by heavy7-665

isnt the dark lord 39"?

nope it is 35"
The knucklehead quake bass is 39"

[Desecrated]

Originally Posted by swayman

Absolutely couldn't agree more with low F# being quite a problem, that is too get a good "sound". But tuning that low on a bass will be felt more than heard. Sound in that range is in a way irrelevant, it's deep rumble.

Obviously too getting a great tone, that low, is gonna be hard with a bass POD or something. You've got a much better chance of "hearing it" through a valve SVT rig.

Digital equipment is sometimes better then analog when dealing with really low notes, most real amps have a limitation in sonic range. Most digital are just set to 20hz-20khz range and since the low F# is 23 hz it falls in place.

And you don't need to hear the fundamental tone, you will hear the overtones anyway.

But what angus says is true, the lower the note the harder it is to amplify so a multiband compressor will probably help you a lot.

[MF_Kitten]

tuning a bass that low will accentuate the guitars no matter how crap it sounds by itself... as long as the string is vibrating at the right frequency, it´ll interact with the guitars, and the notes will be clearer. i tried this by tuning my bass to E an octave lower, and then tuning the guitars to the bass-octave E. sounded great with the lowest octave added, because even though you couldn´t really hear what the hell it was doing when it played by itself, the notes were alot clearer and more powerfull when it all played together. as long as you can reproduce somewhere around 40-50 Hz, you should be ok. and when it comes to longer scales, i think they make the notes alot clearer, but seeing as 30" is enough for a clear and nice E, i think 34-35" should be okay for going that low, especially if you slap on huge strings. i think large strings sound better on bass, as they make the sound tighter.

so yeah, no need for the fundamental, really. just because it´s the "base frequency" of the low notes, doesen´t mean it needs to be there for the notes to be heard. hell, guitarists REMOVE the low end from their instruments with tubescreamers, while accentuating the overtones, to get a good sound... and you hear what notes they play perfectly fine! :P

[Ishan]

For those wondering, you can totally hear low F tuning on a bass, even with standard bass amp. My bass teacher play in drop F tuning on his Nogera 5 strings and it sounds great (I'm so jealous actually )

[angus]

Disagree with both of you. MF_Kitten I think you're missing the point, too.

F/F# sound fine when played at home or in practice by yourself and whatnot, and of course they can be heard. We CAN hear the fundamental, and that's not the issue when I say "It's hard to distinguish live."

The problem is live is tends to sound like shit at volume in a decently sized venue with any semblance of acoustics. No matter how you set it up it's always slightly down on volume and clarity relative to a B, and it creates a big problem live. It doesn't have anywhere near the oomph of the B or E, ESPECIALLY in something like metal. It ends up sounding muddy and getting completely lost in the mix more often than not, even when you have your sound set to cut through like hell! Live is just not comparable to a practice setting or recordings.

MF_Kitten, it usually doesn't really accentuate it very well unless you are set up just perfectly because it tends to get completely lost. Unlike playing a B behind a seven string, it usually ends up just adding some vibration more so than any real value to the sound (from the guys I've seen use it live- I've never used mine live for a metal gig, but have for recordings and other gigs). That vibratory sensation mixed with not hearing the note often leads people to think its out of tune, which sucks. Again, this applies more to rock/metal music, because this is where it's application is IMO most difficult.

Amplification is extremely, extremely important to get anywhere near to a proper sound, and even then it's usually not that great for anything outside of jazz/fusion where there is a lot less sound energy involved.