Fretless bass

[deevit]

I was not referring to Willis as an objective pary. I just quoted him to show that even the best fretless players use lined fretless basses. A lot of people seem to think lined basses are less worthy or less proffesional or something and that's something I tried to keer out here.

And saying that lines are against the idea of fretless bass really is wrong IMO. Either with or without them, the player has to make the intonation. And especially above the 12th fret they really help (to be honest, most unlined players are really false up there). The way of intonating on the lines is different high up the neck too. I'm quite sure that I would play false as hell above the octave on an unlined bass, but with my lined bass I'm doing quite well.

[highlordmugfug]

Originally Posted by angus

There's nothing "not right" about what he said- frankly, having seen and taught lots of bass players, guys who play with lines tend to use them as a crutch for way too long and have far less developed sense of intonation than unlined players. Of course you have to adapt and intonate, but I've found that lined players don't do this very well because most have ears so bad that they don't even realize that X line is actually not very in tune.

Either one is fine, but the learning curve on an unlined is much smaller than you think (with exception to in the higher registers, but all fretless players suck there for a long time) and they tend to pay significantly more attention to developing their ear than lined players.

Quoting Willis isn't a good strategy either- he is ABSOLUTELY resolute that his opinions on fretless are the gospel. I don't mind, because I love his playing and have taken lessons from him in the past, but I wouldn't call him an objective party.

Originally Posted by deevit

I was not referring to Willis as an objective pary. I just quoted him to show that even the best fretless players use lined fretless basses. A lot of people seem to think lined basses are less worthy or less proffesional or something and that's something I tried to keer out here.

And saying that lines are against the idea of fretless bass really is wrong IMO. Either with or without them, the player has to make the intonation. And especially above the 12th fret they really help (to be honest, most unlined players are really false up there). The way of intonating on the lines is different high up the neck too. I'm quite sure that I would play false as hell above the octave on an unlined bass, but with my lined bass I'm doing quite well.

Yeah, just think about all all those other fretless instruments of the past with lines like violin, viola, oud, shamisen, cello, doublebass...

As for the second bolded bit

Originally Posted by angus

but all fretless players suck there for a long time) and they tend to pay significantly more attention to developing their ear than lined players.

Anyone can look a t line, but it takes practice to be able to hit those notes spot on without them (duh). "Either with or without them, the player has to make the intonation" Yeah, once again, duh, but who is the more talented and well versed player, the one who can look at lines and touch near/on them, or the one who can find the notes by ear or through the feel of the instrument?

One other thought, the lines most certainly ARE against the idea of the fretless if one plans to use them for something like twelve tone composition. At least in that knowing the layout off a standard fretboard won't be of too much help, imo for whatever that's worth. The side dots are better indicators of the basic note layout on the board for my taste. Plus I just think that unlined looks nicer.

tl;dr
I'm not trying to be as combative as this reads to me. Just don't hate
on unlined.

[deevit]

Originally Posted by highlordmugfug

tl;dr
I'm not trying to be as combative as this reads to me. Just don't hate
on unlined.

Me neither, nothing wrong with a little discussion right?
And I'm not bashing unlined at all, I'm sorry if it looked that way. I'm just saying that the lines are not pointless, even for 'good' fretless players. I'd like to own an unlined fretess someday, but for main playing I prefer a lined one. Not only for intonation as I said, but it really helps a lot keeping a good overall view on the neck in my experience.
Both lined and unlined have their advantages and charms.

[TemjinStrife]

I play cello, have for nearly 16 years now. I'm used to unlined fretless boards. I still like having lines on a fretless bass as I rock out hard, and can't always guarantee being able to hear myself.

[Excalibur]

A fretless is great especially as a learning tool, you can only get better by using one

[diatron5]

1. I don't know that much about bass but I have played fretless before and it sounded great and was pretty easy to get around on.
2.

[Varcolac]

That Augury track sounds like a fretted in places. Maybe it's some fretted-unfretted double-necked monstrosity like Steve DiGiorgio plays?

I have two lined fretlesses, but that's because they began their lives as fretted basses. Having the lines there is something of a psychological crutch for me, since I can look down and check I'm in the right position. Don't necessarily need them - I play double bass and violin just fine without any lines on the fingerboard - I just think I'm used to them being there, used to being able to double-check my finger position if we've got a shitty monitor mix. The next bass I buy will likely be a 6-string unlined fretless, so that'll be a barrel of laughs to see if I really don't need the lines...

Anyway, more fretless bass stuff.

[Necris]

Originally Posted by Varcolac

That Augury track sounds like a fretted in places. Maybe it's some fretted-unfretted double-necked monstrosity like Steve DiGiorgio plays?

He probably just tracked certain parts with a fretted bass and the rest with fretless. There are videos of him playing both fretted and fretless basses on youtube.

[deevit]

Originally Posted by Necris

He really could use some lines for those double stops though..

For some great metal fretless playing, check out Cynic (ofcourse) and Exivious.