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Unread 11-19-2007, 04:38 PM   #69
JBroll
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarplayerone View Post
A system that relies on everyone having the opprotunity to recieve a higher education works very well in Scandinavia, for example, simply resulting in people actually needing to 'do shit' to get paid for it. This is why their educational system is better- because it needs to be, because most people are expected to become college students, which is the opposite of what we have in the US. This is why more scientists come from there, and most countries that have the highest percentage of scientists also have socialized college education. I am busting my ass right now to pay for school through a mixture of work and bills. If something were to happen where I drop out for seven months, and can no longer defer loan payments, you are telling me it is fair that I should be forced to live in at best low-middle class conditions for the rest of my life?
I don't think I've said that anywhere. What I've said is that college degrees as investments are showing less gain. Try getting much of anything done with a Bachelor's in the sciences - your best bet for anything involving research will be as an assistant to a professor who spent the better part of a decade, if not more, on graduate and post-graduate studies alone. I've gotten a slightly different impression of what expectations are placed on students (between student teaching, tutoring, and looking into the subject) - everyone is expected to go to college... but people aren't always expected to be *useful*.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarplayerone View Post
Higher-paying jobs require more schooling, so this still wouldnt result in say, a doctor making the same amount or a negligible difference from a PA, or some other healthcare professional. I refer to healthcare a lot because I am studying it in college, and my parents are both veterans of the field.
True, but more schooling does not yield higher-paying jobs. Just talk to philosophy students.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarplayerone View Post
I get where you are coming from, but your logic is based on essentially the continuation of a system where individuals with the means to afford a college education are favored over those who cannot.
No, my logic is based on the fact that being available more yields lower demand. I think you've just misunderstood my point - I'm not going to say that people shouldn't be educated (I'd sooner say that there was a risk of starving to death from eating too much) but I've noticed a very distinct expectation that everyone is to go to college, and as a result people do get degrees but fail to actually get degrees that will serve any purpose other than to sit on walls and pretend to be relevant. I'm at a school that was chartered to serve lower and lower-middle class people who traditionally didn't go to college, and one that is seeing very clearly that when people are expected to go to college, regardless of ability or motivation or even knowing what they want to do with their lives and what they need to get there, they tend to get their degrees and proceed to do nothing with them. We wind up flooded with people studying things from business to ancient Chinese fatalist philosophy and finding that their market is already too flooded (if it even exists) - my school is also in the same city as a fairly prestigious medical center, so there are literally thousands studying biology to go to med school and finding that there are already so many people in biology that they stand very little chance of actually getting accepted. It comes down to supply-and-demand in the end - I'm not going to say that I wouldn't be much happier if everyone not only had but took the chance to get educated well, but if everyone has Bachelor's degrees they'll become the next high school diplomas - I don't think that will alleviate the need for some people to go into the military.

I also think that there are much better ways of preventing war - this army is underequipped and having trouble recruiting people, but that isn't stopping the guys in charge from continuing it.

Jeff
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