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Unread 03-24-2012, 01:11 PM   #15
ArkaneDemon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Explorer View Post
Just out of curiosity, since it's always nice to know how much perspective is being brought to the discussion. I've lived outside the First World for a few years of my life, and also spent a bit of time in places where there wasn't even a democracy in name.

What about you guys?
I've lived in Romania for 8 years, being born in the capital and living there most of that time, with a few years spent in a smaller city where my grandmother used to live. That's about the extent of my outside-the-first-world experience, but it was more than enough to see what had to be seen. I don't know if anybody considers Romania first world right now, but when I lived there, it was right after the overthrow of the prior regime, and by no means would it have ever been a first world country when I lived there, much less beforehand. I wish I would have seen what it was like under Ceauşescu, for it would have given me a richer perspective, but oh well. Romania under Ceauşescu was the worst-off country in all of the Eastern Bloc, and even afterwards, it's been pretty shitty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powermetalbass View Post
Democracy is not an Ideal form of government, but until someone comes up with something better and can convince people that it truely is better.....Democracy is the best we have.
People have come up with something better, only to be belittled, persecuted, or even executed, with a continuing deliberation of keeping those ideas down, hidden, or ridiculed through whatever means necessary; mainly propaganda. That's why a large number of people believe that communism is a pipe dream, or massively evil because "herp derp Soviet Union, guys", and repeating of buzz words and phrases until they are drilled so deep within their minds that they actually start to believe it en masse. The same type of people also believe that anarchism is all against all, living permanently in fear that everything you have will be taken from you by force because "herp derp you can't have order without government". Both communists and anarchists have been ....ed with since the 1800s, with the original persecutions being initiated by people in power at the time, people who had everything to lose and who were afraid of the growing sentiment to those ideologies. And so, for some 150 odd years, the general public has been getting pounded constantly with propaganda, with the current state of affairs being what it is because of said propaganda. And it's not just anarchism and communism that have been shit on, there's a lot more out there that has suffered the same fate.

So don't tell me that people haven't come up with better ideas. Convincing the people, aye that's the hard part now...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powermetalbass View Post
People have been writing about proper government and democracy for a long time. Some readings on ideas of government include: Thucydides (SP?), Plato, Aristotle, Machiavelli, Hobbes, Jefferson, Washington, etc, etc, etc.
Have you read any Plato? He's not in favour of a democracy, as outlined in The Republic. Jefferson said "A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine." Aristotle also said things in opposition of the idea of democracy. From what I understood in Hobbes, he thought that democracy wouldn't work as intended because people are motivated by self interest. I don't think that name dropping these people will help your argument, if that was your intention, but they are, nevertheless, interesting reads nonetheless.
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