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Old 12-11-2008, 10:15 AM   #301
I am with Jesus!
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: São Paulo-Brazil
Posts: 576
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Originally Posted by JBroll:
Just keep in mind that you're going up against people who disagree with you not because they're unfamiliar with the story but because they know it too well.
What Naren denied is actually an understanding of many Bible studiers and believers, me included.

That is that God won't condemn those who never had the gospel preached to them in the form one generally imagines (a person talking) because of that. The Bible says that God can be seen in the wonders of creation, and that alone is an announcement of the gospel.

I really don't want to argue as if trying to prove faith by logic and philosophical wisdom, I don't think it's much useful.

So, I'd like to say, as a christian, believer in the Bible (I like the 1995 JKV, for instance), that for what I know of the God of the Bible, who happens to be my Father by faith, He has no commitment to proving His existence in any extraordinary way, meaning other than the ones the Bible mentions.

And to confirm that, I quote two verses from it:

Hebrews 11:6 (New International Version)

"And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him."

I, and many others, take from that and other supporting parts of the Scripture, that no man can reach God or understand Him by himself, by his reason, intelligence or effort, but actually the very opposite is true: only through faith in God, the God presented by the Bible as the word of God.


Genesis 1:1 (New International Version)

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

It's the first verse, the first impression perhaps, and doesn't start proving God's existence, neither does later, it simply assumes He does exist, that His word is true and all the rest is based upon this.

So, I really don't want to mess brother FlyingBanana's discussion and profession of faith here, but really just state that most of the accusations against the Christian faith as being irrational are true, if rationality means human reason and perception of reality, in which most here rely along with their senses as the path to obtain or evaluate what the truth must be.
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