Sevenstring.org - View Single Post - Need input for possible Infinity Guitar Works line.

msherman · 09-17-2008, 02:32 AM

I`ve been watching this thread, and since my name was brought up, here are my thoughts on your vision (if you will kindly indulge me?)

You need to weigh the assets that you bring to the table against the limitations that you posess. If you have unlimited financial resources at your disposal, this would be your most important asset that you can bring to the table, otherwise you are just pipe dreaming trying to make a "go" in this business.

I have been aproached several times with this proposition, where the individual has high expectations of starting a guitar line, with little knowledge of actual "hands-on" luthiery. The short of it........In the end, it comes down to $$$$$$$.

There are only two CNC shops that I know of ("off hand") that would even cater to the idea of what your objective is. Rest assure, it`s going to come down to cash!

And lots of it!
CNC shops are expensive to run, let alone any shop. For an example, my machine with computer, and software cost well over 80K. Thats a big nut to pay every month. It`s not even running guitar parts ATM. It`s running Aerospace parts in order to pay for itself within a few years.

The machine needs to make "X" amount of dollars per hour to justify owning it, otherwise, it`s a lost leader. They are not cheap machines to run either!
"Well, in order to make that cut in the most timely manner, we need a cutter like this"..........it`s only $1800! Then it`s going to wear, and need to get get re-sharpened down the road, requiring re-programming to adjust for the material lost during the re-sharpening. Multiply this one cutter by a minimum of 8, which is what most NC milling centers require for one specific product.
You need two of each, so when the worn cutter is out getting re-sharpened, the machine isn`t sitting idle.

Getting past the machine cost: No matter how big/axis of machine you are able to obtain, there is still many man hours of hand work that will be needed to complete these guitars after they come off the machine, after the hourly rate of the programming. Who is going to do that? At what hourly cost?

Then there is the big issue of the finish work, which is just as big of an undertaking as the actual guitar building. Unless you go to a UV cured finish, plan on your product to be sitting for at least two weeks while the finish dries. That could be $30K+ of product sitting there making no money for two weeks while it cures.

I spent the day at a company that makes UV curing booths today.
A booth that will cure 1 guitar at a time= $12k.
A booth that will cure 15 at a time= $80K

All of this aside,then there is the issue of the sourcing of supplies to send to the Luthier/machine shop. It`s alot of fun

Feeding the shop is a full time job in itself. The money goes out this month, but you won`t see a return until two, maybe months down the road. Be prepared for that!

I could go on for hours with this post, as there are many more obstacles to overcome.

I`m not trying to shatter your dreams with this post, I`m trying to enlighten you as to the magnitude of the reality here involved with this buisiness.

After paying all these bills getting things up and running, when will you see a return based on the unit cost? Food for thought.

09-17-2008, 02:32 AM	#57
msherman Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Connecticut Posts: 1,077 Thanked: 35	I`ve been watching this thread, and since my name was brought up, here are my thoughts on your vision (if you will kindly indulge me?) You need to weigh the assets that you bring to the table against the limitations that you posess. If you have unlimited financial resources at your disposal, this would be your most important asset that you can bring to the table, otherwise you are just pipe dreaming trying to make a "go" in this business. I have been aproached several times with this proposition, where the individual has high expectations of starting a guitar line, with little knowledge of actual "hands-on" luthiery. The short of it........In the end, it comes down to $$$$$$$. There are only two CNC shops that I know of ("off hand") that would even cater to the idea of what your objective is. Rest assure, it`s going to come down to cash! And lots of it! CNC shops are expensive to run, let alone any shop. For an example, my machine with computer, and software cost well over 80K. Thats a big nut to pay every month. It`s not even running guitar parts ATM. It`s running Aerospace parts in order to pay for itself within a few years. The machine needs to make "X" amount of dollars per hour to justify owning it, otherwise, it`s a lost leader. They are not cheap machines to run either! "Well, in order to make that cut in the most timely manner, we need a cutter like this"..........it`s only $1800! Then it`s going to wear, and need to get get re-sharpened down the road, requiring re-programming to adjust for the material lost during the re-sharpening. Multiply this one cutter by a minimum of 8, which is what most NC milling centers require for one specific product. You need two of each, so when the worn cutter is out getting re-sharpened, the machine isn`t sitting idle. Getting past the machine cost: No matter how big/axis of machine you are able to obtain, there is still many man hours of hand work that will be needed to complete these guitars after they come off the machine, after the hourly rate of the programming. Who is going to do that? At what hourly cost? Then there is the big issue of the finish work, which is just as big of an undertaking as the actual guitar building. Unless you go to a UV cured finish, plan on your product to be sitting for at least two weeks while the finish dries. That could be $30K+ of product sitting there making no money for two weeks while it cures. I spent the day at a company that makes UV curing booths today. A booth that will cure 1 guitar at a time= $12k. A booth that will cure 15 at a time= $80K All of this aside,then there is the issue of the sourcing of supplies to send to the Luthier/machine shop. It`s alot of fun Feeding the shop is a full time job in itself. The money goes out this month, but you won`t see a return until two, maybe months down the road. Be prepared for that! I could go on for hours with this post, as there are many more obstacles to overcome. I`m not trying to shatter your dreams with this post, I`m trying to enlighten you as to the magnitude of the reality here involved with this buisiness. After paying all these bills getting things up and running, when will you see a return based on the unit cost? Food for thought.